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Any Ex Cubase Or Sonar Users?

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i have and run both and like one of my other posts i do mostly audio, very little midi. just curious if you are from one of these other DAW's what brought you here to samp 10?

thanks

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I switched from SX 3 mostly out of curiosity. Sx had some issues too, but also the attitudes of the froum mods and of steinberg in general also put me off a little bit.

it took me a little bit to get to grips wih samplitude but I hung in there and am now stuck. :lol::)

I now look at the cubase forums once in a while and see all the issues in 4 that im glad I switched a while ago.

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the cubase forums are pretty insane, especially the attitude of the mods. i have 4.1.2 running and its been solid for me, but again i mostly do audio. i have been testing the samp 10 demo and have figured out mostly what i need to do pretty easily

looks like support is pretty good to, is this the official forum for magix? in that are their actual samp employees here?

Sonar is a good system also but it glitches my monitors whenever i hit a button, with cubase on the same system AND the samp demo nothing like that happens

it feels (as much as one can fee on a PC) like cubase and samp are very solid, fast and responsive.

i keep cubase to do sessions with friends on that platform so sonar was my main DAW but like i said there were some issues i had with it and the samp workflow for me feels better, less frills and no nonsense type thing.

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hi,

is this the official forum for magix? in that are their actual samp employees here?

yes it is, and yes, the devs are here very often, very very often ! it's a pleasure.

cheers

Phil

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is this the official forum for magix? in that are their actual samp employees here?

All the developers for Samp/Sequoia read and post the in registered forum and they retain a strong interest in user feedback . Volker is the head developer/coder , Frank develops on the midi side and had alot to do with the Audio Quantize feature , Sascha codes his very special plug-ins and Falcone works on controller support . There's not really a moderator as we tend to self moderate . All in all the forums here are civil and helpful .

Regards

Kraznet

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And not to forget that certain members provide very helpful information/tools to make Samplitude a joy to work with. :lol:

I still work with Cubase, because some of my customers have projects in Cubase.

That's why I also have ProTools.

But I do all my own projects in Samplitude.

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I've been a Sonar user since V3. I was more or less happy with it up until V6 when they did something to the program that caused it to not work worth a &*(^ (I think it was Vista).

Things improved a bit with V7 but the program still seems unstable to me. It crashes often. Hiccups. Motorboating. Pops. Clicks. Stutters. It never ends. It didn't used to be like that.

I have both Sam and Sonar on the same machine and Sam runs as smooth as butter. I can find fault with both programs (neither are without some flaws) but Sam seems like a Mercedes and Sonar seems more like.... a Chevy. Both will get you from point A to B but one will get you there in style :)

btw Kranet - thanks for those videos. They have been most helpful.

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I was watching the video from "channel 9" I think, its an interview with 2 people from Cakewalk and some one from Microsoft. I thought it was very good and informative and one point mentioned is very true..

That most programs do the same thing and have similar or the same features..its user interface / functions that will define the programs more than anything. All programs can have audio quantize..HOW they get you there will sell or not sell them. :)

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the reason for switching from cubase? one word: object editor.

i switched as soon as i had the feeling that rewire is working (which i need) - which was for me v10, so there i am, mostly satisfied (only mostly because of the bescheuert sales scheme in which you must own a pro version to get the cleaning and restoration suite or to get it free with the master version but where you are completely out of luck with the standard version - you just can't buy it for this version..)

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Ok, where do I start with the Cubendo to Sampquoia move. Well to begin with, I have used many DAWs professionally over the last 19 years. All the usual suspects inc Protools HD/LE, Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Paris, Vision, Sadie, Fairlight etc. Only two DAWs do it for me these days: Pyramix 6 and Sampquoia 10. I must say Reaper 2 is very kewl though for a budget app and catching up fast!

The main feature I look for in a DAW is sonic integrity i.e. sound quality. I'm not concerned with a little functionality inconvenience, the main thing I want is quality sound, stability and features in that order.

therefore; My top 3 reasons for switching from Cubendo 4 to Sampquoia 10

1) Sound: - Sampquoia 10 sounds great. Just take a mono file you have tracked in Cubendo, listen to it in Cubendo, then load into Sampquoia and check the difference. For all the noise Steinberg makes about their pristine audio engine you would think it is amazing, but in reality it falls horribly short of professional. Just to let you know that I'm not tripping, I have choices of convertors and clocks (Apogee Big Ben, Cranesong, Lavry), I use ATC SCM 100 mains and other fine monitors and I can tell you Cubendo 4 has a very confused sounding audio engine when compared with Sampquoia 10.

2) Stability - Latency compensation in Cubendo is poor. Try running various plugins on a multi mic'd drum kit and good luck with maintaining your phase coherency. Sampquoia 10 on the other hand is tight as... Zero worries in keeping your phase and sound stage solid when using plugins. Sampquoia runs smooth, boots fast, redraws waveforms fast etc etc etc. Cubendo is slow to load, does not scale brilliantly on multicore cpu's and is so slow to redraw waveforms it's simply boring to watch.

3) Features - Sampquoia's object level editing alone makes Cubendo's workflow seem old fashioned in comparison. The editing features and general program layout of Sampquoia bring back the fun in audio production. Cubendo just plain annoys me now with it's unnecessary tools, clumsy automation and dodgy fades. (I must say automation is better in Nuendo 4 though)

Others will have different reasons but if you rate sound quality as your top priority then Sampquoia can't be beaten by any PCM based DAW at present. The only better sounding DAW is Pyramix at DSD/DXD but that's another ball game altogether.

Cheers,

ant

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I've been a Sonar user since V3. I was more or less happy with it up until V6 when they did something to the program that caused it to not work worth a &*(^ (I think it was Vista).

Things improved a bit with V7 but the program still seems unstable to me. It crashes often. Hiccups. Motorboating. Pops. Clicks. Stutters. It never ends. It didn't used to be like that.

I have both Sam and Sonar on the same machine and Sam runs as smooth as butter. I can find fault with both programs (neither are without some flaws) but Sam seems like a Mercedes and Sonar seems more like.... a Chevy. Both will get you from point A to B but one will get you there in style :lol:

btw Kranet - thanks for those videos. They have been most helpful.

Hey there, ironic that i am meeting you here :blink: I have been a Sonor user since version 4 but have had enough- it hasn't been stable since version 5.2 imho and i am not wasting another penny on it. I absolutely love working in Sonor but its no good Cakewalk ading all these extra features if it compromises the audio engine- nothing worse than trying to explain to paying customers after they have done a perfect take that your DAW went belly up 10 seconds before they finished :)

If you dont mind me askin do Magix do a crossgrade offer for Samplitude?

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I've been a Sonar user since V3. I was more or less happy with it up until V6 when they did something to the program that caused it to not work worth a &*(^ (I think it was Vista).

Things improved a bit with V7 but the program still seems unstable to me. It crashes often. Hiccups. Motorboating. Pops. Clicks. Stutters. It never ends. It didn't used to be like that.

I have both Sam and Sonar on the same machine and Sam runs as smooth as butter. I can find fault with both programs (neither are without some flaws) but Sam seems like a Mercedes and Sonar seems more like.... a Chevy. Both will get you from point A to B but one will get you there in style :)

btw Kranet - thanks for those videos. They have been most helpful.

Hey there, ironic that i am meeting you here :blink: I have been a Sonor user since version 4 but have had enough- it hasn't been stable since version 5.2 imho and i am not wasting another penny on it. I absolutely love working in Sonor but its no good Cakewalk ading all these extra features if it compromises the audio engine- nothing worse than trying to explain to paying customers after they have done a perfect take that your DAW went belly up 10 seconds before they finished :D

If you dont mind me askin do Magix do a crossgrade offer for Samplitude?

Ha! Misery loves company :lol:

I believe there is a crossgrade option of some sort but it might depend on the country. I got a sweet deal on Sam Pro last year for around $300 USD.

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I've been a Sonar user since V3. I was more or less happy with it up until V6 when they did something to the program that caused it to not work worth a &*(^ (I think it was Vista).

Things improved a bit with V7 but the program still seems unstable to me. It crashes often. Hiccups. Motorboating. Pops. Clicks. Stutters. It never ends. It didn't used to be like that.

I have both Sam and Sonar on the same machine and Sam runs as smooth as butter. I can find fault with both programs (neither are without some flaws) but Sam seems like a Mercedes and Sonar seems more like.... a Chevy. Both will get you from point A to B but one will get you there in style :D

btw Kranet - thanks for those videos. They have been most helpful.

Hey there, ironic that i am meeting you here :blink: I have been a Sonor user since version 4 but have had enough- it hasn't been stable since version 5.2 imho and i am not wasting another penny on it. I absolutely love working in Sonor but its no good Cakewalk ading all these extra features if it compromises the audio engine- nothing worse than trying to explain to paying customers after they have done a perfect take that your DAW went belly up 10 seconds before they finished :D

If you dont mind me askin do Magix do a crossgrade offer for Samplitude?

Ha! Misery loves company :)

I believe there is a crossgrade option of some sort but it might depend on the country. I got a sweet deal on Sam Pro last year for around $300 USD.

I am looking at the version 9 Pro edition at the moment although i still haven't made up my mind on what version to start with. I can get version 9 Pro for $399 from JRR shop and possibly upgrade at a later stage or else i will simply go for the standard Samplitude 10- im not sure yet! I am trying out the Samplitude 10 Pro demo at the moment so im going to spend another bit of time with that before parting with any money. Shame i cant post in the Samplitude forum as i have a few questions :lol:

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If you have questions you can pose them here in this forum. Honestly, I don't know why there has to be a newcomers vs old timers forum section. There isn't enough activity on the other forum to warrant separating Sam Pro into two different forums (as far as I'm concerned). Also, it would be a nice touch to add some misc sections to this forum (tech talk, gear, software, coffee house, etc). Seems like the IQ level is a little higher over here than on some other forums. I wouldn't mind picking the brains of a few people around here from time to time.

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hi Larry,

I don't know why there has to be a newcomers vs old timers forum section.

I think the difference is the Newcomer forum is open to everybody, you don't need to own a license.

Since you own a license, you'd post in the others forums. I don't think it's a question of new vs old.

it would be a nice touch to add some misc sections to this forum (tech talk, gear, software, coffee house, etc)

no, please ... :)

IMHO, there's already enough things to read, and the advantage is what's to read is related to Sampliquoia, period. That's perfect.

cheers

Phil

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If you have questions you can pose them here in this forum. Honestly, I don't know why there has to be a newcomers vs old timers forum section. There isn't enough activity on the other forum to warrant separating Sam Pro into two different forums (as far as I'm concerned). Also, it would be a nice touch to add some misc sections to this forum (tech talk, gear, software, coffee house, etc). Seems like the IQ level is a little higher over here than on some other forums. I wouldn't mind picking the brains of a few people around here from time to time.

I've started a new topic detailing my questions so far so you can pop over and share your experience. I actual really like the idea of the registered users forum as there is so much "trolling" on many of the other forums, cheers, Stephen

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Shame i cant post in the Samplitude forum as i have a few questions :)

Questions like?

fire away...

Greg

p.s. IMO Samplitude is probably the most 'ripped off' DAW program out there. First to do 24/96, first to do object editing, etc. etc.

There are some great advancements in the automation and CPU (multi-core) handling in 10.1 (currently in beta), so depending on how you like to work, I think you'll find Samplitude to have much faster navigation and is WAY faster for editing - especially during mix/master phase.

****

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hi Larry,
I don't know why there has to be a newcomers vs old timers forum section.

I think the difference is the Newcomer forum is open to everybody, you don't need to own a license.

Since you own a license, you'd post in the others forums. I don't think it's a question of new vs old.

it would be a nice touch to add some misc sections to this forum (tech talk, gear, software, coffee house, etc)

no, please ... ;)

IMHO, there's already enough things to read, and the advantage is what's to read is related to Sampliquoia, period. That's perfect.

cheers

Phil

I get it. Makes sense (I'm still catching up :) ).

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Ha! Misery loves company :)

I believe there is a crossgrade option of some sort but it might depend on the country. I got a sweet deal on Sam Pro last year for around $300 USD.

Hey, Larry, I recognize you from the SONAR forums. I'm also having issues with SONAR 7. One of the main reasons I upgraded to S7 was for the external hardware delay compensation. As far as I'm concered it's unusable, and it looks like we won't get a patch. I've also had an issue with softsynths for some time. So, I too am now seriously considering Samplitude.

Can you comment on what you miss from SONAR and what took some getting used to in Samp? Do you use the external hardware delay compensation in Samp? How do you like the workflow?

Thanks!

John

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Hi John,

Welcome to the forums here.

The first thing thats different : when you double click on a wav file in other programs it would take you to a sample editor of sorts. Samplitude takes you to the object editor. This is the first difference.

Whats the object editor? This is where you apply effects and make certain changes to the OBJECT wich is the container for said wav file. its very easy to apply effects and fades to onjects..these are seperate from the overall track itself. This is not as easy in oher hosts...a pain in the ass in some.

Yes Samplitude does have a sample editor, but I prefer to just zoom out and still view the entire project now.

Crossfade editor is on another level here. I think they thought like a remixer or dj here..very intuitive.

There isnt a fx rack for vsti's pre se, like in other hosts. I dont mis it too much. You get a manager wich controls a lot of daily functions in samplitude..markers, audio routing, vst routing.. its kinda taken from some office type programs but here it works very well and I want SAM-DEV to develop it even more.

The remix agent and Audio Quantize and Midi Quantize options are all here and They work very well. Elastic Audio..No need for Roalnds V-Vocal technology here.

I would suggest downloading the demo and trying it out.

Have fun and welcome!

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Samplitude's legacy has always been high-quality audio editing, mixdown, and it's infamous 'sound engine', so you'll immediately notice a lot of options and other flexibility aspects that do not exist in any other host that I've seen.

It can be approached in a linear or non-linear fashion. If you are a big menu user, it's great, but it's even faster being able to customize hotkeys for faster workflow.

I've personally had PT, Nuendo, and Sonar people in my studio say things like -'wait, how did you just do that?'.

The object oriented paradigm is pretty amazing IMO, as well as the usual automation-driven approach that most people are acquainted with from other hosts.

Sometimes people complain that the program is 'too deep', or that the GUI is 'unintuitive', but I have come to prefer the interface and especially the idea that there are about 3 distinct approaches to doing similar functions - such as applying effects, or crossfades, etc.

So, yes, definitely get the demo, watch some videos and jump in!

Greg

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Ha! Misery loves company :)

I believe there is a crossgrade option of some sort but it might depend on the country. I got a sweet deal on Sam Pro last year for around $300 USD.

Hey, Larry, I recognize you from the SONAR forums. I'm also having issues with SONAR 7. One of the main reasons I upgraded to S7 was for the external hardware delay compensation. As far as I'm concered it's unusable, and it looks like we won't get a patch. I've also had an issue with softsynths for some time. So, I too am now seriously considering Samplitude.

Can you comment on what you miss from SONAR and what took some getting used to in Samp? Do you use the external hardware delay compensation in Samp? How do you like the workflow?

Thanks!

John

Hey John.

I can't comment on the things you mentioned because I'm not using any of Sonar's synths, or MIDI stuff or hardware controllers, etc. I'm embarrased to admit I'm using Sonar (and for the most part Samplitude) as a digital tape deck. I'm basically just doing multi-track recordings for local rock bands. Not to diss my clients but most of them wouldn't know a sequencer if it hit them on the head. Unless you're doing some sort of modern urban hybrid rock/hip hop (a la Lincoln Park), it's pretty much just guitar, bass drums in here. Which suits me fine actually.

I will tell you that I like Sonar in spite of itself. I much prefer the GUI and workflow interface in Sonar compared to Samplitude. In my mind, if Sam had Sonar's wrapping, I'd be happy. That's not to take away from what SamP is. I understand why some might prefer it. You can never please everyone. I understand that. I'm so used to Sonar I guess, I find Sam's interface & learning curve a bit much. To me, these two programs actually seem complimentary. What one lacks, the other excels at and vice versa.

I prefer Sonar for tracking and Samplitude for mixing and mastering work. I'm just trying to get my comfort level with Sam up there so I can run sessions as fluidly as I can with Sonar right now. When I first got Sonar I was up and running sessions in two weeks. That has not been the case with SamP.

Another part of the problem is my work load here. Taking time off to learn software is always a tricky thing. I'm not getting rich doing this and my ability to pay rent and put food on the table is directly proportional to how many clients I book. That means literally trying to book almost every night of the week or weekends. When I first learned Sonar I had the luxury of time. I was able to devote large parts of my day to it which helped. But I alos thought (and still think) there is a more logical methodology to Sonar. I mean even the user manual is vastly superior (that might also be a good reason why it took me less time to learn).

I don't know. I guess I like both programs equally but for different reasons.

Here's a few things I'll mention in Sonar's favor:

I love those track icons. A really nice touch when you're hunting for tracks in a 64+ track arrangement.

Visually speaking, I prefer the meters in Sonar. I can see them from across the room. And they show text peak indicators. I find it really strange that Sam doesn't offer this.

Color customization is vastly superior. Almost every aspect of the program can be color modified.

Grouping controls is more logical and a lot easier. I can group controls in the main project window using a color scheme to group controls. In fact I can generally do anything I want in the main project window. I rarely use Sonar's mixer window.

There is more room for track ID text in the scribble spaces. Everything seems smaller in Sam.

I like the graphical EQ in the tracks better than the old fashioned knobs like Sam uses.

Unfortunately, in spite of the window dressing, Sonar is too unstable. And that, to me, is a deal breaker. It drives me insane when the thing crashes for no good reason (also motorboating and various other audio anomolies). Clearly, Cakewalk spends a lot of time with the window dressing and not enough time on the underlying engine. Perhaps over time that will stabilize but I'm not going to keep buying update after update hoping they get things right. They always manage to break things in the process as well. I guess the grass is never greener on the other side of the fence as all the DAW's have their quirks and foibles.

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I'm a sonar user, helping a DAW newbie friend with samp. I also find various things that are better in one than the other and vice versa. In addition to the above points mentioned, so far I think these functions in sonar are easier to use:

Exporting and bouncing. Sonar's options menu for including or excluding various levels of processing and automation is great.

Track templates. So easy and fast. I know samp has the work around of opening a second project with the tracks set up already and copying those to the current working project. Unfortunately when copied across, if any tracks are within a folder, they don't come across as inside the folder anymore.

** Track lanes. I find this very helpful when doing multiple takes and comping. **

Copying (cloning) a track with the option not to copy the audio. (minor issue of course).

* Easy object (clip) automation drawing in which the curve always defaults to zero change. (I think I read this may be improved in samp soon?).

Sonar's manual/help tells you where the command is in the menu system so you can invoke it. Samplitude's often does not!

Of course, I also have a list of things I like better in samp.

PS Sonar is stable for me. On my system, only strange plugins make it crash.

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Track templates.

Samp has TrackFX presets since V9, including all fx/VSTi/...

Also check the drag&drop for copying or moving fx between the mixer fx slots. Works also for EQ (use the small "EQ" button to drag&drop).

And you can also transfer whole mixer-setups, but the track order has to be the same in all projects for this to work (no name matching or so).

Custom Coloring scheemes is an interesting topic. Can you group different level faders, SOLO, Mute buttons in Sonar and have individual colors for such control groups?

Greetings,

Frank

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I would love to be able to color faders according to groups. :)

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