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jjroberts74

? From A Potential New User

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hi ppl!!!!!

i make my living in audio, but i dont really know how to describe myself. 'freelance audio dude' works pretty good. i use midi and vstis live at various gigs (mainly bars), i score film, i also record jams with a few bandmates for fun, i do sound design for indie production companies, and record lectures and keynote speeches for a circle of erudite types at various college campuses and other venues. lots of different stuff.

its fun, as i never know what my next job is gonna be and it keeps life fast-paced and varied. but my problem has always been having to use different apps, with their respective differences in workflows, for all of these different tasks. this has always bothered me. i dont like it. i really want a clean, centralized interface for all the things i do. i use a pt hd rig for sound design, and a laptop with an mbox 2 for mobile recording. but i hate pt. i use it because film school told me to all those long years ago (when i absolutely abhorred the program with all my heart and soul... now i merely loathe it. it has gotten better). but it does make collaboration with other engineers a lot simpler. but personally, i hate the app. its... cludgy. is the best description i can come up with. powerful, yes. but not enjoyable to use. i dont like flashiness or complex interfaces, i just want simplicity. pt is cumbersome, i feel like im locked in a nuclear submarine or somethin. i have a lot of power, but its so cramped with valves and menus and buttons everywhere.

for music, i generally use acid pro although it has many many faults. i started out in techno, making my own loops with madtracker and then acidizing them and mixing it up in acid. i dont really do that kinda stuff anymore, and for writing to picture acid is missing some key features that sony has made no indication of including any time soon (they need to communicate with users more i think).

my quest for an all-in-one solution began two years ago. many of the apps i demo'd previously have had numerous substantial upgrades since, but im not really content with any of them even today. i dont think it should be so hard to find an audio app that can record a speech or an interview or some foley fx as easily as it can record a live gig or some adr dialogue or some vstis. but it has become mind-numbingly frustrating. i really wanna migrate my work to a new centralized platform! most of the apps ive found really are sequencers designed primarily for music, and thats fine... pt is mostly an app for recording mic inputs and doesnt work with midi in a particularly powerful or quick way, or play nice with all my plugins.

anyway-- i ramble on and on because finally ive found sequoia and it gives me a glimpse of hope. im moving my studio (biggest pain in the ass ever) so i havent had a chance to demo the app. but the tutorial vids give me a good idea of how it works. it looks good, im excited. its torturous waiting for my gear to arrive so i can get set up again! even the product literature alludes to the fact that sequoia is not just a music app, but can work with all manner of audio recorded for a multitude of purposes.

closest thing i found previously was sawstudio. startlingly clear audio resolution (puts sonar and cubase to shame), but i wasnt too keen on its strict emulation of analog mixer desks when there's a lot of innovation to be had in the digital domain. thats just me.

i am amazed id never heard of samplitude or sequoia. wheres all the marketing, man??

i have many questions but i wont ask most of em til ive given the demo of seq 10 a proper whirl. only one ill ask is 64-bit. its my primary concern atm. i want that memory boost. half my stuff isnt 64-bit yet (hell, more than half my stuff) but the devs have all announced their working on it. general consensus seems to be that in 12-18 mos all my drivers and plugins and such will have stable 64-bit drivers. then its go time baby!!!!!! prob gonna just build a giant 64-bit machine and slave it via mol.

i cant find much info on whether seq 10 is aiming for a 64-bit version in that time frame (basically by summer of next year). i did find a post indicating seq 10 has issues pushing the 2 gig envelope with the /3gb switch which is a little unsettling, but ill test that out myself. its all i have til 64-bit is a reality!!!!

anyway, is 64-bit in the works? any sort of a time frame? 6 months? a year? i just want to know its gonna happenr, right? the site states seq is always evolving to adapt to new pc technologies. multi-cpu support is pretty cool, i think only sonar's doin that right now (that i saw!!!!!! could be wrong), but 64-bit is huge. its what i want most. itll definitely propel the hardware well beyond the capabilities of software for a time, which will be nice. til we need 128-bit that is!!!!

ok. im done. bye.

jj roberts

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Are you talking 64 bit windows? Samplitude/sequoia work fine and the RAM acsess is not defines by the audio program AFAIK. I run a commercial studio and love SAM. No need for other programs. Record, mix ( ITB or OTB) master and burn all in SAM. Try the demo and you'lle like it.

Jeff

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yes, i am talking about 64-bit windows. if the app is not native 64-bit, it is still limited to accessing 4gb of memory - it will do so in a 64-bit environment much easier, though, as essentially you dont have to do any of the annoying steps to squeeze more than 2gb out of the operating system like in 32-bit winxp. but i am talking about accessing up to 128gb of memory as permitted by 64-bit specifications. currently, only sonar and (i think) n-track studio 5 are 64-bit. cubase 4 is issuing its 64-bit version quite soon (a preview version is available to users).

in my case, my audio interfaces of choice have no 64-bit drivers available. none of my saplers (gigastudio and kontakt) are 64-bit either. once my host, samplers, and drivers are all 64-bit native, i will be unstoppable!!!!!!!!! basically my 32-bit system can handle all the synths, effects (sans millions of altiverbs), and tracks i can throw at it. i really just want to build a massive 64-bit slave for my commercial and private sample libs.

this is why, despite the advent of 64-bit windows vista, it is taking so long for many musicians to get up and running with the extra memory boost. everything has to be written and released for 64-bit. good news to hear 32-bit samplitude has no problems running in vista 64, tho. also why memory remains expensive. once it becomes common fare for systems to contain 16 or 32gb of ram, ram will come in 8gb sticks that will cost a couple hundred bucks.

i hope magix has a definite timeline for 64-bit, evne if they arent releasing that info publicly!!!!!!!!!!

thanks jeff. def gonna give the demo a run for its money when i begin piecing my studio back together. appreciate the candor!!!

jj roberts

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yes, i am talking about 64-bit windows. if the app is not native 64-bit, it is still limited to accessing 4gb of memory - it will do so in a 64-bit environment much easier, though, as essentially you dont have to do any of the annoying steps to squeeze more than 2gb out of the operating system like in 32-bit winxp. but i am talking about accessing up to 128gb of memory as permitted by 64-bit specifications. currently, only sonar and (i think) n-track studio 5 are 64-bit. cubase 4 is issuing its 64-bit version quite soon (a preview version is available to users).

in my case, my audio interfaces of choice have no 64-bit drivers available. none of my saplers (gigastudio and kontakt) are 64-bit either. once my host, samplers, and drivers are all 64-bit native, i will be unstoppable!!!!!!!!! basically my 32-bit system can handle all the synths, effects (sans millions of altiverbs), and tracks i can throw at it. i really just want to build a massive 64-bit slave for my commercial and private sample libs.

this is why, despite the advent of 64-bit windows vista, it is taking so long for many musicians to get up and running with the extra memory boost. everything has to be written and released for 64-bit. good news to hear 32-bit samplitude has no problems running in vista 64, tho. also why memory remains expensive. once it becomes common fare for systems to contain 16 or 32gb of ram, ram will come in 8gb sticks that will cost a couple hundred bucks.

i hope magix has a definite timeline for 64-bit, evne if they arent releasing that info publicly!!!!!!!!!!

thanks jeff. def gonna give the demo a run for its money when i begin piecing my studio back together. appreciate the candor!!!

jj roberts

IMO 64bit is a bit of a ruse due to no real 64bit drivers or even 64-bit apps - despite what they say, since the OS is still the decider and limiter. 32bit float on a dual system with 3G switch, and hybrid mode will give you REAL overhead that the other more integer-driven apps out there only barely harness. So, when all the hardware, drivers, converters, OS's, memory, etc. all REALLY are properly utilizing 64bit, then Samplitude will probably be there.

10.1 beta is testing 8 cores or more, and people are already running it on Vista (for what it's worth), so if 60+ full stereo tracks with multiple instances of heavy synths, reverbs, compressor/limiters, etc.a ll running on one machine are what you're looking for (as well as fast, clean editing), then you're in the right place. :(

Greg

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anyway, is 64-bit in the works? any sort of a time frame? 6 months? a year? i just want to know its gonna happenr, right? the site states seq is always evolving to adapt to new pc technologies. multi-cpu support is pretty cool, i think only sonar's doin that right now (that i saw!!!!!! could be wrong), but 64-bit is huge. its what i want most. itll definitely propel the hardware well beyond the capabilities of software for a time, which will be nice.

ok. im done. bye.

jj roberts

I really don't think that we will see Sequoiatude as a pure and real 64bit app any time soon. If this is really what you think you need now, I guess you better look somewhere else.

til we need 128-bit that is!!!!
Hard to imagine that, because the adress room of 64bit is already in the quintillions of bytes.

Regards,

Sebastian

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anyway, is 64-bit in the works? any sort of a time frame? 6 months? a year? i just want to know its gonna happenr, right? the site states seq is always evolving to adapt to new pc technologies. multi-cpu support is pretty cool, i think only sonar's doin that right now (that i saw!!!!!! could be wrong), but 64-bit is huge. its what i want most. itll definitely propel the hardware well beyond the capabilities of software for a time, which will be nice.

ok. im done. bye.

jj roberts

I really don't think that we will see Sequoiatude as a pure and real 64bit app any time soon. If this is really what you think you need now, I guess you better look somewhere else.

til we need 128-bit that is!!!!
Hard to imagine that, because the adress room of 64bit is already in the quintillions of bytes.

Regards,

Sebastian

Isn't Sampliquoia already effectively running at 80-bit anyways?

I somehow remember discussions re: this ages ago, and it again cropped up in a recent session with Tom S. online.

IMO 64-bit is a marketing ruse until ALL the hardware aspects catch up - and basically redundant since I think most of the extra overhead is for handling higher RAM-intensive plugins anyways, and is IMO relatively moot when it comes to audio.

Cubendo is using this as a selling point - when IMO it's compensation for poorly designed software :(

Plus, people listen to crappy mp3's, so what's the point? :P

Greg

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Yes it does work under a 64bit host.

I have used XP X64 / Vista X64 and Sercer 03 and 08 64 Bit editions.

I have decided upon Server 2003 64 bit for now with my setup. All is cheeky.

Samp can access up to 4 gigs of ram under a 64bit environment. It is not Able to access more then that yet. But thats why we can freeze our tracks. AND you can edit frozen parts. UNlike Cubase or Nuendo.

Sam-Dev IS testing certain Vista features with Sampliquoia right now so you can bet that Vista 64 is on the test bed too.

I myself could care less about a 64bit mix engine ( re: Sonar ) But the memeory addressing for large vsti's is an important factor for me.

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yay!!!! discussion.

'64-bit' is only *kind of* a marketing ruse right now. herb over at vsl is running a 64-bit slave with vista x64 and sonar (which is 64-bit) with 32 gb of memory on his mobo, and an audio card (cant remember wich) that has 64-bit drivers. his entire template, loaded on one machine!!!!!!!! streaming over to his 32-bit master pc with midi over lan, i believe. but that is a vsl-specific setup, as he is using the library inside of the vienna ensemble, which is a 64-bit host especially for the vsl. but right now you could do it, if that was your primary library.

but yes, mostly it is just a buzzword for the time being. i know that. 64-bit drivers for half my gear are still on the way. the relevant plugins arent 64-bit yet. i need it for sample libraries, though. period. freezing's nice. ability to not have to ever freeze would be superior. 64-bit provides the answer.

that is my main need for it. not a higher resolution audio mix engine, or ability to work with 400 st tracks. purely for sample libraries, where the higher memory addressing is crucial and has been the most annoying thing ever about working with samplers for about the past 5 years, as weve seen the rise of the monolithic 'super libs'. if youre not using samplers, you wont see the imminent need for 64-bit. but it is imminent, for that market of users. weve needed more memory for way too long, but til now its simply been impossible.

i checked with flavio over at n-track and yes, n-track studio 5 is 64-bit. so is sonar, and cubase will be imminently.

like ive said, im ready to wait. im gonna have to regardless. probably bout another year to a year and a half. i just want it being worked on, is all.

truth be told, though, if it comes to it, and everything gets up to 64-bit and seq aint... ill just go with the super cheap n-track. 64 bucks!!! a buck a bit!!!!!!!! and you get a 64-bit host, that could run a 64-bit sampler plugin, and access oodles of ram!!!!!!!!!! and then use mol to connect it to my master machine running seq (alrready connecting three 32-bit slave machines as is... theyll all be obsolete with one 64-bit slave tho). and assuming i go with seq as my new workstation app, of course. i dearly need a new one... this looks like my only hope for a sane world atm, honestly. :(

jj roberts

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truth be told, though, if it comes to it, and everything gets up to 64-bit and seq aint... ill just go with the super cheap n-track. 64 bucks!!!

You are kidding? right?

If thats all you want outta your DAW, go for it. I haven't heard anything about Phase aligned thru-out the signal path, or how Sam has the best sounding ITB summing out there. Or the fantastic plugs like the Am-munition or Elastic audio pitch automation... If its only about hosting a sampler, this is the wrong place, Samplitude is a fantastic complete package that sounds fantastic.

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truth be told, though, if it comes to it, and everything gets up to 64-bit and seq aint... ill just go with the super cheap n-track. 64 bucks!!!

You are kidding? right?

If thats all you want outta your DAW, go for it. I haven't heard anything about Phase aligned thru-out the signal path, or how Sam has the best sounding ITB summing out there. Or the fantastic plugs like the Am-munition or Elastic audio pitch automation... If its only about hosting a sampler, this is the wrong place, Samplitude is a fantastic complete package that sounds fantastic.

64bits of integers to maneuver MIDI notes triggering large-library samplers? Yeah, Sequoia may be overkill - that is until you try to do a really good transparent mix.

n-track, or even Forte' for that matter should be able to handle sample playback, arbitrary as to whether it's 64-bit or not. Problem is - you still have to mix.

Good luck with whichever program you choose - just know that Sequoitude is already way ahead of the curve on this one.

Greg

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Note : The next MAJOR update to Kontakt 3 will be 64 bit. Emualtor X 3 is already 64 bit. Its coming along..slowly but comong along.

Once I update after this little tour I do next week. Im going to dual boot between Server 2003 and 2008 both 64 bit versions.

The transistion is slow, but worth the wait. :blink:

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dr. funk - yeah, im pretty excited bout the k3 update.

eclectica - of course 64-bit is not all i want out of my daw. look at all different the stuff i do!!!!!!! maybe im a radical revolutionary round these parts, but i was under the impression sample libraries are common tools in digital music production and for a long while, even smaller libs have become too large to proprerly load into 4 gb of ram, with effects and tons of stereo tracks and other vsti's. foir those of us who work with these libraries, 64-bit memory addressing is extremely important. its importance cannot be overstated. it is *very very very* important. we all have different things we value as necessary, and for magix to cater to everybody's individual tastes is foolhardy and impossible, as it is with any other software developer.

but there's a huge market of users, not some unimportant tiny niche, who would like to ditch 4 or 5 or 8 slave machines and go with one 64-bit slave, and there are hardly any hosts out there that can help them do it. and many of them have indicated that its not a priority, which is odd. seq/sam should be working on it. its a big deal. native instruments didnt think 64-bit was a big deal, which is over-the-top insane for the people who built an industry-standard sampler. they finally realized 128gb of memory is the future and a very bright one at that! libraries have been produced in excess of the limits of current software for some time now. that can be done away with,finally.

concerning a smaller, 'inferior' host... as it seems nobody round here uses sample libraries and sees the value of 64-bit memory addressing, this seems almost a necessity. but if i end up going with some daw that takes its sweet time getting to 64-bit, i was merely inferring that there are other apps out there that can act in a supplementary fashion (ie for providing 64-bit memory addressing) to reside on a slave machine til my main daw gets updated. wich is kind of my vexing issue right now with myc urrent daw. i dont like using all these different plugins to achieve functionality the host should have had to begin with. esp with 64-bit in the works, it seems unlikely these other plugins will be updated in a timely fashion so i can keep using all of themin a 64-bit environment. so i want a new host that consolidates all this functionality into one app. that way, i only need to wait for one development cycle to adopt the 64-bit standard.

anyway. im profoundly disturbed that so few seq users seem to do any music production with modern sample libs (or at least, the people replying to this thread). if you do, you know that 64-bit's a no-brainer feature of massive importance. maybe i missed somethin, but with the excellent implementarion of dx/vst/rewire, it certainly seems like digital music is somethin this app does really well, among other things.

i need my studio back so i can run a demo!!!! :blink:

jj roberts

p.s. dr funk - why servers 2k3 and 2k8? not keen on vista? hehe neither am i. i don know anything bout those operating systems, tho. do you have a thread somewhere that explains your decision? (i tried a search but nothin came up). im very interested, as id really like to properly weigh all my 64-bit options before i go down that road.

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64-bit will happen. No worries.

If you want it NOW, even before most A/D's and drivers handle it, then yes, you can always slave some other applet and still do your final mix in Sampliquoia.

...and there ARE many people on here doing scoring work for example, using huge libraries and/or mondo-VST's. So we DO see the advantage - but for the immediate future it's still a bit of a sideshow marketing ploy IMO.

(and are those supposed 64-bit apps. REALLY utiliizing the full 64-bit resources?)

Greg

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hey greg.

cool, cool. yea i agree. for now, just a buzzword. 12 months from now, itll be a big deal. "will happen" is all i needed to hear. :blink: as far as utilizing the full 64-bit resources, well, i know that herb over at the vsl forum has demonstrated his 64-bit rig running some 27 or 28 gb of ram on a full vsl template, using the new vienna ensemble and sonar 7 x64. i believe he was running one of the intel server mobos with 32 gigs of memory onboard. i forget the sound card and converters he was using on the slave, but they were picked from a handful currently compatible with 64-bit software. yea, not too many yet!

his setup was totally stable and usable. its awesome! but rather specialized (ie not everybody can do it, but if you use vsl as your primary lib, you could do it today using readily available hardware and software).

as of this afternoon, my master pc has arrived at the new studio space!!!!!!! slaves are still in transit. in a week or two ill start demoing every daw known to man (mainly want to do some sound quality comparisons, as that is my number one priority - the most accurate and neutral digital audio engine available... followed very closely by certain workflow nitpicks of mine).

jj roberts

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hey greg.

cool, cool. yea i agree. for now, just a buzzword. 12 months from now, itll be a big deal. "will happen" is all i needed to hear. :blink: as far as utilizing the full 64-bit resources, well, i know that herb over at the vsl forum has demonstrated his 64-bit rig running some 27 or 28 gb of ram on a full vsl template, using the new vienna ensemble and sonar 7 x64. i believe he was running one of the intel server mobos with 32 gigs of memory onboard. i forget the sound card and converters he was using on the slave, but they were picked from a handful currently compatible with 64-bit software. yea, not too many yet!

his setup was totally stable and usable. its awesome! but rather specialized (ie not everybody can do it, but if you use vsl as your primary lib, you could do it today using readily available hardware and software).

as of this afternoon, my master pc has arrived at the new studio space!!!!!!! slaves are still in transit. in a week or two ill start demoing every daw known to man (mainly want to do some sound quality comparisons, as that is my number one priority - the most accurate and neutral digital audio engine available... followed very closely by certain workflow nitpicks of mine).

jj roberts

Yeah! Well, have fun...

We all know which DAW sounds the best :lol:

Good luck,

Greg

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