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Scoring To Video In Samplitude?

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I have been trying to use Samp10 demo to see how it would be for scoring to video and so far, not impressed. I can't get anything to work right. I found the medialink page under project options and chose my NTSC DV format video. It loads, imports the audio. I hit play, the video does not play along. I use the arrow keys to advance the video forward and back 15 frames at a time. Is there a way to advance only one frame at a time? Anyway, when I do that, the VIP now timeline seems to move forward and back. So it appears to be linked up. However, hitting play on the transport does not cause the video to play

There is no video timeline on the VIP. In the medialink page I see two greyed out checkboxes for show current video frames and show video track. Is that the only way to see a video timeline? How do I get a video timeline. How can I move one frame at a time? How can I get the video to play along with samplitude?

Furthermore, after futzing around a few minutes, the video window changes to contain an odd assortment of desktop graphics(ie, not my video content), and I can't seem to get the video back. I try closing the window, but looking under the window menu after that shows it still checked. I uncheck it and check it again, it does not come back. Later on I'm futzing around and it magically appears again.

Either there is some magic setting to make this work or I have to say, it does not work very well. Anyone can help me?

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I have been trying to use Samp10 demo to see how it would be for scoring to video and so far, not impressed. I can't get anything to work right. I found the medialink page under project options and chose my NTSC DV format video. It loads, imports the audio. I hit play, the video does not play along. I use the arrow keys to advance the video forward and back 15 frames at a time. Is there a way to advance only one frame at a time? Anyway, when I do that, the VIP now timeline seems to move forward and back. So it appears to be linked up. However, hitting play on the transport does not cause the video to play

There is no video timeline on the VIP. In the medialink page I see two greyed out checkboxes for show current video frames and show video track. Is that the only way to see a video timeline? How do I get a video timeline. How can I move one frame at a time? How can I get the video to play along with samplitude?

Furthermore, after futzing around a few minutes, the video window changes to contain an odd assortment of desktop graphics(ie, not my video content), and I can't seem to get the video back. I try closing the window, but looking under the window menu after that shows it still checked. I uncheck it and check it again, it does not come back. Later on I'm futzing around and it magically appears again.

Either there is some magic setting to make this work or I have to say, it does not work very well. Anyone can help me?

How was your video captured?

By DV format, do you mean .mpg? If so, Samplitude seems to have problems showing mpeg (in my experience) - even though the audio may play just fine.

I've been doing some tests myself with HD .avi's, and have had some success. After capturing audio, editing and sweetening the audio, I've also been able to render back out to another .avi. I'm going to be doing some more tests with .mpg's, and .mov's.

I've also had success with Magix Movie Edit Pro's .mxv format, which is supposedly best suited for working in Samplitude.

Right clicking over the video window should let you set it for frames. Arrow keys should let you go frame by frame.

Also, what happens when you click on the shuttle wheel in the transport?

In general IMO Samplitude is a little behind in the video department, so I'm doing some video post type tests in the next beta.

Let us know if/when you get things working.

Greg

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no.

mini-dv, which is not MPEG and is about as uncompressed as you can get. Samplitude should not be having any problem with it. Sonar and quicktime both handle it fine.

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no.

mini-dv, which is not MPEG and is about as uncompressed as you can get. Samplitude should not be having any problem with it. Sonar and quicktime both handle it fine.

Then Samplitude is indeed behind the curve here. I'll do more tests with my HD stuff captured straight as well as compressed.

I'll also do some research on which varieties of formats Samplitude is SUPPOSED to handle.

Either that, or Magix needs to add the same video capability that's in Sequoia back into Samplitude.

Greg

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I tried right clicking on the video window and I could not find any way to set the arrow keys to frame by frame.

The scrub wheel does work, but its difficult to control precisely for frame by frame accuracy. Anyway, I get the feeling that the arrow keys are effecting the main track view directly, which in-directly positions the video window as a remote slave kind of thing. Still, I don't know how to configure samplitude to move frame by frame with the arrow keys or with any other keys. Do you know?

The fact that the video window will occasionally black out, that the video is not playing when I hit play on the transport, that when I close the video window it goes to some hidden place and won't come back again until some random time later, etc.. these are all flukey reasons that I have to take a pass on Samplitude for video scoring for now. but if these things are fixed in the future, post to this thread, because I want to like Samplitude...but video scoring is a major thing for me and Sequoia is not an option.

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I tried right clicking on the video window and I could not find any way to set the arrow keys to frame by frame.

The scrub wheel does work, but its difficult to control precisely for frame by frame accuracy. Anyway, I get the feeling that the arrow keys are effecting the main track view directly, which in-directly positions the video window as a remote slave kind of thing. Still, I don't know how to configure samplitude to move frame by frame with the arrow keys or with any other keys. Do you know?

The fact that the video window will occasionally black out, that the video is not playing when I hit play on the transport, that when I close the video window it goes to some hidden place and won't come back again until some random time later, etc.. these are all flukey reasons that I have to take a pass on Samplitude for video scoring for now. but if these things are fixed in the future, post to this thread, because I want to like Samplitude...but video scoring is a major thing for me and Sequoia is not an option.

OK, so what's the format of the DV? You say it's uncompressed, but I'm thinking that Samplitude needs to see some variation on a compressed format when working internally in the program. My HD DV tapes get captured as mpg's in Movie Edit Pro, or sometimes I'll try capturing in virtualdub as .avi's and Samplitude seems to behave with these files OK (it wasn't always this way). They are ALL compressed in one form or another.

Are you synchronized with the DV camera and attempting to work that way over firewire?

Again, I'm thinking that Samplitude just isn't setup for frame-by-frame uncompressed function, but I MAY be wrong. I wish one of the developer of video post guys would chime in on this as I'm definitely more of an audio guy anyways.

Right clicking over the video only lets you set it up the project to see frames in the time window, so theoretically the arrow keys should step through forward/backward frame by frame rather than 15 frames at a time - which leads me to think that Samplitude doesn't like the uncompressed variety. I'm still testing this myself.

Since Samplitude is not a video editor, and Sequoia is out of the question, and if you've tried other approaches such as using .avi inside Samp., and had no success, then it may not be time yet.

There ARE requests from myself and other more heavy video post and scoring folks that want tighter integration of video in Samplitude. For now, Magix has opted to have all these features integrated in Sequoia (including now video capture), but alas this area IMO is a little behind. I'm also a long-time request to simply merge MEP with Sampliquoia and get it over with, and go for the full feature approach.

All I can say is to try out other approaches, or wait for one of the developers to chime in - which they are generally very good at over here.

By the way, what is your hardware configuration? How are you capturing the video? Resolution?

Greg

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Yes, Media Link seems to work best with a compressed format .. QT with Sorrensen 3 works well... See if you can convert it to that 1st...

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OK, so what's the format of the DV? You say it's uncompressed, but I'm thinking that Samplitude needs to see some variation on a compressed format when working internally in the program.

DV format is DV format. This is the standard format shot by 99% of digital camcorders out there. This is usually the PREFERRED format on most platforms because it is not compressed and therefore requires less CPU to display the video. Further, every frame is preserved which means that as you seek around from frame to frame, its going to be easier to handle. Whenever you deal with compressed video it gets more CPU intensive and more complicated to extract specific frames when moving frame by frame, etc... In most other DAW's including Sonar it is usually recommended to use uncompressed DV format if possible. The only disadvantage is that the file size is large. If samplitude can't handle DV and that is the only problem, that would also be a deal breaker for me, but I will try some other compressed formats also to see what happens.

My HD DV tapes get captured as mpg's in Movie Edit Pro, or sometimes I'll try capturing in virtualdub as .avi's and Samplitude seems to behave with these files OK (it wasn't always this way). They are ALL compressed in one form or another.

An avi file is not necessarily compressed. AVI and MOV files are merely wrappers around something else internally. An AVi file usually has an embedded video track and and embedded audio track...they are actually separate tracks within the AVI. MOV files allow further for text tracks, I'm not sure if AVI does or not. Whether the actual video file is compressed inside the avi is entirely dependent on the codec that was used to create it. So an AVI file could be DV format video or it could be MPEG or it could be any one of a variety of different video streams that require a special codec to display.

Unfortunately I am using the demo version of Samp right now, so I cannot try MovieEditPro to create this proprietary video format. It sounds like Samp is optimized to work with this Magix format and everything else is wishful thinking?

Are you synchronized with the DV camera and attempting to work that way over firewire?

no

Again, I'm thinking that Samplitude just isn't setup for frame-by-frame uncompressed function, but I MAY be wrong. I wish one of the developer of video post guys would chime in on this as I'm definitely more of an audio guy anyways.

uncompressed should be easier than compressed for frame-by-frame. See above. Another compressed format I have seen recommended a lot is Mjpeg (motion jpeg) which also preserves every frame but uses jpeg to shrink the size of each frame. It produces files that maybe 30% the size of the full DV stream, but generally will be more easily handled by most DAW's because every frame is completely intact.

Right clicking over the video only lets you set it up the project to see frames in the time window, so theoretically the arrow keys should step through forward/backward frame by frame rather than 15 frames at a time - which leads me to think that Samplitude doesn't like the uncompressed variety. I'm still testing this myself.

I really don't understand why the video being uncompressed should have anything to do with it. But regardless, if that is true, its a deal breaker. I'm rather surprised to find out this is the case.

Since Samplitude is not a video editor, and Sequoia is out of the question, and if you've tried other approaches such as using .avi inside Samp., and had no success, then it may not be time yet.

I don't need video editing. I don't need multiple video tracks. I don't need to slide video tracks in time. I just need a daw that doesn't spontaneously hide the video window, that allows me to advance frame by frame (by the way, samp does kind of advance frame by frame with the scrub wheel, so I know it must be possible. the scrub wheel just is hard to control), that displays the video thumbnails in the track view, that plays when I hit the play button, that stays in sync with the VIP project, and that can handle pretty much all the major video formats out there, especially including DV uncompressed video. You're right..if Samp isn't there yet, then I can't migrate. Sonar does all this perfectly. But Sonar's PRV sucks compared to Samp.

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First of all, DV should be fine. You are right that it is preferred over compressed formats like mpeg where the frame base is lost by compression.

Second: To move the play cursor frame by frame with the arrow keys, set up the VIP timeline to SMPTE by right clicking the timeline. Choose the correct SMPTE format in the Synchronization setup (default shortcut shift+G). Activate "Snap" (right click the timeline again to see the option). Activate "Snap to Grid/Frames" (one more right click on the timeline).

Your observation was right: the video in Samplitude is linked to the timeline. An external player (like the windows media player) is used for playback.

Hope that helps.

Oliver

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To set one detail straight: DV is a compressed format (around 5:1), but it is compressed frame by frame. any mpeg format is compressed in a group of pictures.

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Thanks for the explanation about the timeline grid. That sorta works. More on that in a minute. Another question, is it possible in Samp to have two timelines showing at once? I would like both SMPTE and MBT showing at same time.

The arrow keys now do advance one frame at a time. However, the very first frame does not advance the video. So, for example, if I rewind to the beginning. The Samp time display shows exactly the same value I see burned into my video window(I have the smpte times burned into the video visual). When I hit the right arrow key, samplitude advances to the next frame, but the video itself does not advance by one frame. When I hit the right arrow again, they both advance and continue to do so normally, except that the video is remaining one frame off from what the samplitude clock says.

if I hit PLAY, then the video itself does not play, but I can see the time counter incrementing, and I can hear the audio track. But the video does not move. When I hit stop the video jumps to the location on the timeline where I stopped and lines up perfectly, but from there the same situation I outlined in the previuos paragraph is true...the first right arrow moves the Samplitude time forward by one frame, but does not advance the actual video. But the subsequent arrow keys move both samplitude clock and video together...however at that point the video is always one frame out of sync with the NOW time in samplitude.

So two problems so far, playing does not play the video, and the arrow key advance is somehow not keeping the video in sync.

In addition to that, the video screen often goes blank or shows jumpled graphics. Sometimes by resizing the video window it corrects itself, sometimes that doesn't work either.

incidentally, in case this is part of the issue, I have the SMPTE offset set to 02:22:38:01 since that is the starting frame burned into the video window which I want samplitude to also be showing the same time in the Samplitude clock. that seems to work except for the first arrow advance not advancing the video. The help file seems to indicate that this smpte offset is more related to syncing with external smpte signals...which is not exactly what I'm doing here, but it seems to work for establishing a particular HH:MM:SS:FF as the starting frame of the project at bar 1.

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Thanks for the explanation about the timeline grid. That sorta works. More on that in a minute. Another question, is it possible in Samp to have two timelines showing at once? I would like both SMPTE and MBT showing at same time.

The arrow keys now do advance one frame at a time. However, the very first frame does not advance the video. So, for example, if I rewind to the beginning. The Samp time display shows exactly the same value I see burned into my video window(I have the smpte times burned into the video visual). When I hit the right arrow key, samplitude advances to the next frame, but the video itself does not advance by one frame. When I hit the right arrow again, they both advance and continue to do so normally, except that the video is remaining one frame off from what the samplitude clock says.

if I hit PLAY, then the video itself does not play, but I can see the time counter incrementing, and I can hear the audio track. But the video does not move. When I hit stop the video jumps to the location on the timeline where I stopped and lines up perfectly, but from there the same situation I outlined in the previuos paragraph is true...the first right arrow moves the Samplitude time forward by one frame, but does not advance the actual video. But the subsequent arrow keys move both samplitude clock and video together...however at that point the video is always one frame out of sync with the NOW time in samplitude.

So two problems so far, playing does not play the video, and the arrow key advance is somehow not keeping the video in sync.

In addition to that, the video screen often goes blank or shows jumpled graphics. Sometimes by resizing the video window it corrects itself, sometimes that doesn't work either.

incidentally, in case this is part of the issue, I have the SMPTE offset set to 02:22:38:01 since that is the starting frame burned into the video window which I want samplitude to also be showing the same time in the Samplitude clock. that seems to work except for the first arrow advance not advancing the video. The help file seems to indicate that this smpte offset is more related to syncing with external smpte signals...which is not exactly what I'm doing here, but it seems to work for establishing a particular HH:MM:SS:FF as the starting frame of the project at bar 1.

second timeline: right-click over the current timeline and 'show 2nd timeline'. Pick your grid. I use SMPTE and beats most of the time. (Lots of hidden setups under right-mouse clicks in Samplitude)

The rest of the issues I still think are related to how Samplitude deals with whatever DV format you're using (even though DV is DV). I still believe Samplitude prefers some sort of quasi-compressed format like .avi.

Frame-by-frame is working here. Holding down the arrow keys moves through the video without audio (on my system using .avi's).

Have you tried rendering an .avi and see what happens? I know you want to work in DV (as do I - especially with HD), but maybe try it anyways to see if there is any difference.

Greg

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I still believe Samplitude prefers some sort of quasi-compressed format like .avi.

Frame-by-frame is working here. Holding down the arrow keys moves through the video without audio (on my system using .avi's).

please check to make absolutely sure that the first key press actually moves the video, I know it already moves the timeline, but the first keypress does not move video here. After that it works fine. The only way to be sure is if you have the actual timecode or something burned into the screen so that you can visually verify that the video in fact advances on that first keypress.

Have you tried rendering an .avi and see what happens? I know you want to work in DV (as do I - especially with HD), but maybe try it anyways to see if there is any difference.

It is already an AVI file. AVI files can contain all kinds of different video streams, including DV.

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I still believe Samplitude prefers some sort of quasi-compressed format like .avi.

Frame-by-frame is working here. Holding down the arrow keys moves through the video without audio (on my system using .avi's).

please check to make absolutely sure that the first key press actually moves the video, I know it already moves the timeline, but the first keypress does not move video here. After that it works fine. The only way to be sure is if you have the actual timecode or something burned into the screen so that you can visually verify that the video in fact advances on that first keypress and remains correctly in sync frame for frame with with that samplitude time clock says.

Have you tried rendering an .avi and see what happens? I know you want to work in DV (as do I - especially with HD), but maybe try it anyways to see if there is any difference.

It is already an AVI file. AVI files can contain all kinds of different video streams, including DV. As I said before, if samplitude can't handle DV format, then its no good for me. The other problems with the video not playing, the screen blanking out or turning to jibberish, etc.. well..that goes without saying....not functional and I really can't understand why the DV stream'd avi file should be causing that. If it is, then Samplitude needs more work in this area. (shrug)

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Your video display problems are related to directshow and are more a problem of your graphics adapter. Try updating all graphics drivers and directx.

Next there is a checkbox in the Samp Medialink dialog wether you want to use directshow or not, experiment with that.

Then try reducing the hardware acceleration in your graphic adapters preferences dialog.

Yes, AVI container with DV as the codec works totally fine.

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hi,

I will begin a movie post prod soon, and I need to reduce Hardware Acceleration a lot to read the movie. V8 worked very much better...

Without reducing HW, the movie window stay in the left upper corner (impossible to move), semi transparency bug and movie doesn't run.

Fortunately I can try before the client comes... :)

Phil

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Your video display problems are related to directshow and are more a problem of your graphics adapter. Try updating all graphics drivers and directx.

Next there is a checkbox in the Samp Medialink dialog wether you want to use directshow or not, experiment with that.

Then try reducing the hardware acceleration in your graphic adapters preferences dialog.

Yes, AVI container with DV as the codec works totally fine.

what he said :)

Forgot about the directshow setup. Did this so many years ago that I totally forgot about it.

Greg

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I already have the latest video drivers and directX, etc.. I did not see a DirectShow checkbox. There is an overlay checkbox and I tried it both ways, with bad results both times. Sad to hear that this is the end of the quest. Good luck everyone.

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I already have the latest video drivers and directX, etc.. I did not see a DirectShow checkbox. There is an overlay checkbox and I tried it both ways, with bad results both times. Sad to hear that this is the end of the quest. Good luck everyone.

Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Good luck with whatever you decide to go with.

Greg

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I already have the latest video drivers and directX, etc.. I did not see a DirectShow checkbox. There is an overlay checkbox and I tried it both ways, with bad results both times. Sad to hear that this is the end of the quest. Good luck everyone.

Have you tried reducing the hardware acceleration? Which graphics adapter are you actually using?

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Have you tried reducing the hardware acceleration? Which graphics adapter are you actually using?

I am using the Matrox P650. I will try to turn down hardware acceleration later, I'm up against a deadline right now.

But honestly, why does media player and quicktime and sonar and everything else with video work perfectly fine on this computer, but not samplitude. See my point?

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Have you tried reducing the hardware acceleration? Which graphics adapter are you actually using?

I am using the Matrox P650. I will try to turn down hardware acceleration later, I'm up against a deadline right now.

But honestly, why does media player and quicktime and sonar and everything else with video work perfectly fine on this computer, but not samplitude. See my point?

Yes, I see what you're saying, and the inverse can be asked - why would all those other apps. on the computer possibly conflict with Samplitude (if that's the case)? Or, better yet, what is distinct about Samplitude's drivers (or whatever) that let it run fine on some systems, etc. and not on others?

Also, are the video functions somehow crippled in the demo?

Just FYI...(for what it's worth at this point) - In the 10.1 beta - I'm testing multiple HD/DV formats captured through MEP and Virtualdub, on three distinct computers with 3 distinct setups, and trying to determine where the real issues lie (compression formats, drivers, external monitors, etc.).

My older desktop (almost entirely dedicated to video editing) has a P650 on it, so I'm checking this as well.

I definitely agree that at V10 (demo or not), it SHOULD just work across the board.

Greg

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