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jcorbett

Dedicated Video Track In Samplitude

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I'm finding QT's the least friendly handoff (for some reason).

Greg

That's really odd.. depends on the codec/format being used of course.

Should be able to shuffle around the video clips in Sequoia and export it back to the same format.

Not the least: The fact that you cannot write your audio back to the QT or DV video file is completely ridiculous IMO.

Instead you need to render to an AVI file :)

Even 600$ Cubase and Logic can do that..

Ola

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I am not aware of any issues handling AVIs.

Writing back the changed audio into any existing container is of course a relevant aspect. I second that. But there are certainly some implications with specific codecs and containers. I.e. it is not that trivial to 're-mux' and MPEG stream, AFAIK.

With AVIs there are little problems I am aware of, besides VBR audio maybe. Exchange of audio with BWF is btw the only really standardised method, that should work given the operators are trained on it.

Regarding video exports, that aspect is really shallow still in the momentary Sequoia implementation. As it is now, you can't do re-confirms nor exports without hassle. And, as much as Greg might contradict, MEP is not a partner up to par to Sequoia. At least not in the form MEP is featured currently. A Sequoia-MEP team has a clear rated breaking point, and that'll be MEP.

Regards,

Sebastian

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I am not aware of any issues handling AVIs.

Writing back the changed audio into any existing container is of course a relevant aspect. I second that. But there are certainly some implications with specific codecs and containers. I.e. it is not that trivial to 're-mux' and MPEG stream, AFAIK.

With AVIs there are little problems I am aware of, besides VBR audio maybe. Exchange of audio with BWF is btw the only really standardised method, that should work given the operators are trained on it.

Regarding video exports, that aspect is really shallow still in the momentary Sequoia implementation. As it is now, you can't do re-confirms nor exports without hassle. And, as much as Greg might contradict, MEP is not a partner up to par to Sequoia. At least not in the form MEP is featured currently. A Sequoia-MEP team has a clear rated breaking point, and that'll be MEP.

Regards,

Sebastian

notice the smiley...

MEP and Sequoia are definitely distinct, but MEP does handle avi's now pretty well, so IMO is a good adjunct to Sequoiatude.

IMO, as I've stated elsewhere - Magix should just merge MEP features into Sequoia, and migrate the current video capabilities in Sequoia down into Samplitude. When fully integrating the now $80 MEP, Sequoia will be even more of an amazingly powerfull tool in the industry, since Premier, Vegas, and Final Cut do not handle nearly as many audio features as even MEP does, so I say that Magix revisits their feature list along this thinking.

By the way, I just rendered new audio to an .avi out of Samplitude this past weekend, and the results were good - and it was HD video!

Greg

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MEP is nice and cheap for consumer tasks, and I have used it myself to get my family holiday shots from a miniDV onto a DVD- V. :)

But as you say Sebastian, MEP is IMO no way near the professional realm that Sequoia operates in. What many of us need from Sequoia is the ability to

output clips with score/sound design in a container format ( and valid codec) to the major players Final Cut and Avid. I don't need another quasi video editor.

For that I use Final Cut.

Nothing wrong with having AVI as an option too, but it just isn't enough.

One have to question what is the real purpose of the video features in Sequoia? I happen to believe this is for post production, as you also have similar features in Nuendo and Pro tools ( and not to forget pyramix). Sequoia should be no less than these competitors in this field, added to the many brilliant features that's already there.

Cheers,

Ola

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MEP is nice and cheap for consumer tasks, and I have used it myself to get my family holiday shots from a miniDV onto a DVD- V. :)

But as you say Sebastian, MEP is IMO no way near the professional realm that Sequoia operates in. What many of us need from Sequoia is the ability to

output clips with score/sound design in a container format ( and valid codec) to the major players Final Cut and Avid. I don't need another quasi video editor.

For that I use Final Cut.

Nothing wrong with having AVI as an option too, but it just isn't enough.

One have to question what is the real purpose of the video features in Sequoia? I happen to believe this is for post production, as you also have similar features in Nuendo and Pro tools ( and not to forget pyramix). Sequoia should be no less than these competitors in this field, added to the many brilliant features that's already there.

Cheers,

Ola

So, until Magix sorts out their place in the video post market, why not try a tool like SuperC to encode the avi's out to whatever format you want?

It does a pretty good job of conversion.

Greg

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Yeah, Greg..

I could do that, but then I have to recode/render all files I get into my studio as well.

The source files have to be AVi as well - QT works fine as media link format, but the adjustments/cuts will not transfer because the surce file isn't avi.

I have Nuendo and PT LE and end up doing the final merge there anyway. Or rather load the Sequoia mix into FInal cut. :)

Cheers,

Ola

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Rise from your grave!

Hi, sorry to ressurect an old thread here, just it's the first time I've looked at it in a while - now we are on the cusp of Nuendo 5 and it appears Steinberg have already released Cubase 5 with some SERIOUS flaws in it that somehow passed it's clearly utterly inadequate QA (i.e. whilst such fundamentals as Solo and Mute were broken in Cubase/Nuendo 4, Steinberg have upped the ante but not only leaving these things broken, but decided to now break Automation as well! In other words, Cubase is not only flawed, but completely broken and useless. And Steinberg don't care).

So, more than ever I want to switch to something else.

I'm a bit disappointed that there was never any official response on this thread - I hope someone on the team read this. The only people I've been able to speak to before have been in sales and they have been a brick wall "no and never" in their response.

Just so it's clear what I am after, is a single video track (not trackS) in Samplitude, in which potentially multiple video files can be placed at desired starting and ending points on the project timeline. No more, no less (although more is a bonus!). The current features are simple inadequate for serious audio-video work, even just writing music to video where you may want to time a moment in the video to be a bar start. I am after what ALL other audio applications offer, even in their most cut down versions (well, perhaps not in their FREE versions!).

Pro Tools LE, Sonar, Cubase (even Cubase Studio), Logic, Digital Performer, Reaper ALL offer this level of functionality.

Nothing would be lost from Sequoia by adding this limited version of it's functionality into Samplitude - people are NOT going to decide to NOT buy Sequoia because this feature is in Samplitude! If someone wants this feature right now, they will buy something not made by Magix!

So please can I get some official Magix feedback on this!

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I do apologise, it was quite a while ago! I am impressed by your memory :)

So any chance of a change in policy over this? I'm sorry if my previous message came across as agressive or rude - really my frustration is directed towards S- rather than yourselves.

I just do very strongly believe that it would be of a huge benefit to yourselves, your product and you customers, and I feel that it would not take anything away from the benefits of Sequoia if such a feature is added. As I stated mentioning rival products - this level of functionality isn't really a 'premium' feature, and I would be surprised if there were people who had bought Sequoia over Samplitude *exclusively* for this extra functionality.

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Lots of people still using .avi's with no real need to convert, since Premier and Movie Edit Pro can handle them fine (in my world). Although I'm seeing mostly .m2t's for HD stuff.

I'm finding QT's the least friendly handoff (for some reason).

Greg

I'm a newbie with Sequoia and video. How would you handoff (exchange) files with someone working in a Mac-based environment with Final Cut Pro and using Sequoia for sweetening? Would we have to go through an additional step exporting to Quicktime and then converting to an AVI?

BK

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Hi Bob,

I just finished working on a MOW, where the director sent quicktime movies and found that Sequoia could not handle .mov files that were at 24fps (23.98fps)...it seemed to not resolve the frame and video rates properly...and I think it had to do with mp4 compression, etc...However, when I opened these files in Vegas and re-exported as avi files using sorenson, they worked fine...I just set the project timeline to start at the timecode on screen...

However, I was using short 12 minutes segments, I didn't test a full 2 hours in a row, so 'drift' could happen, in terms of playback frame rate calculation not being correct...

I wish I was more confident with Sequoia and video, but I have always found that I have to work around to ensure that sync is maintained from beginning to end...whereas in Nuendo, and Vegas, or ProTools, using .aaf or other formats seemed much more reliable...

If you just want to sweeten, another option is to simply import the audio, sweeten by ear and then re-export and give back the audio and let them conform to picture.

Oleksa

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I usually ask for Quicktime files (DV-codec) and they work very well. I have experiences with 24fps and 25fps.

But I'm in wonderful PAL land...

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Lately I've been testing using markers/EDL's between Samplitude and VideoProX or Movie Edit Pro (two other fine Magix products :) ) - exporting directly out from Samplitude to MEP, and then using MEP for the NLE video editing, staying mostly with mpeg's.

Then I'll render an avi out of MEP, and bring it back into Samplitude (since it currently only handles <ahem> one video track) for final audio mix. Afterwards I'll just send the audio mix and the video editor SHOULD just need to fly in the audio and do a conform edit, which is perhaps ideal anyways, since the Premiers and Vegas's out there are not real strong on audio editing anyways.

I'm also still testing being able to use the markers and EDL's somehow in other programs like Premier - like some sort of industry standard tranfer format (hmmmmmm..... :blink: ).

Unfortunately as far as I know, there is still a workaround needed to convert .avi's rendered out of Sequoiatude to .mov's using a program like SUPER - http://www.erightsoft.net/SUPER.html

This is IF the other facility doesn't accept .avi's or just simply do not do their own conversion.

bluecastle may be correct regarding long segments and sync. in Sequoia - I rarely go over 5 minute segments anymore. Also, personally I've never had problems playing QT's in Samplitude, and the 'native' .mxv format coming out of MEP is also 'friendly' to Samplitude.

IMO if Magix would basically just <ahem> merge VPX with Sequoia, or MEP with Samplitude, then this might provide what some other people have requested - the ability to have multiple video segments to sync. to for audio production - like a sort of REAL video post environment. :ph34r:;) (I'm being facetious of course)

Greg

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I am not aware of any issues handling AVIs.

Writing back the changed audio into any existing container is of course a relevant aspect. I second that. But there are certainly some implications with specific codecs and containers. I.e. it is not that trivial to 're-mux' and MPEG stream, AFAIK.

With AVIs there are little problems I am aware of, besides VBR audio maybe. Exchange of audio with BWF is btw the only really standardised method, that should work given the operators are trained on it.

Regarding video exports, that aspect is really shallow still in the momentary Sequoia implementation. As it is now, you can't do re-confirms nor exports without hassle. And, as much as Greg might contradict, MEP is not a partner up to par to Sequoia. At least not in the form MEP is featured currently. A Sequoia-MEP team has a clear rated breaking point, and that'll be MEP.

Regards,

Sebastian

notice the smiley...

MEP and Sequoia are definitely distinct, but MEP does handle avi's now pretty well, so IMO is a good adjunct to Sequoiatude.

IMO, as I've stated elsewhere - Magix should just merge MEP features into Sequoia, and migrate the current video capabilities in Sequoia down into Samplitude. When fully integrating the now $80 MEP, Sequoia will be even more of an amazingly powerfull tool in the industry, since Premier, Vegas, and Final Cut do not handle nearly as many audio features as even MEP does, so I say that Magix revisits their feature list along this thinking.

By the way, I just rendered new audio to an .avi out of Samplitude this past weekend, and the results were good - and it was HD video!

Greg

+1, Merge Integrate Movie edit pro into Sequoiua. In Sequoia 11.

Saw Movie Edit Pro 14 at Best Buy toaday $49.-

JCorbett, tell your boss to throw down some bills for the best. :)

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Actually, I'm going to update my statement.

Magix should merge the new Video Pro X into Sequoia, and MEP into Samplitude.

But I don't see this happening for V11.

In the meantime, you can directly EDL export out of Samplitude (markers and all) and automatically launch MEP, and the audio tracks land right inside MEP.

VERY cool.

Greg

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Hi Bob,

I just finished working on a MOW, where the director sent quicktime movies and found that Sequoia could not handle .mov files that were at 24fps (23.98fps)...it seemed to not resolve the frame and video rates properly...and I think it had to do with mp4 compression, etc...However, when I opened these files in Vegas and re-exported as avi files using sorenson, they worked fine...I just set the project timeline to start at the timecode on screen...

However, I was using short 12 minutes segments, I didn't test a full 2 hours in a row, so 'drift' could happen, in terms of playback frame rate calculation not being correct...

I wish I was more confident with Sequoia and video, but I have always found that I have to work around to ensure that sync is maintained from beginning to end...whereas in Nuendo, and Vegas, or ProTools, using .aaf or other formats seemed much more reliable...

If you just want to sweeten, another option is to simply import the audio, sweeten by ear and then re-export and give back the audio and let them conform to picture.

Oleksa

Thanks, Oleksa. I'll probably use Apple's Compressor to convert to an AVI for import into Sequoia. Or Movie Edit Pro on the PC side, considering it came "free" with Sequoia. I always check audio sync in a few places against the soundtrack just in case. We'll be running at 29.97 fps I imagine, although I'm toying with doing this production in HD. I'll also have Final Cut export the audio to an AIFF for my comfort zone and not use the audio track from the movie except as a sync reference.

BK

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A bit of background first - I've asked about this before on this forum, and have also spoken to Magix about this to no avail, but would really like this issue brought up and discussed on a serious level. I am really keen on Samplitude, and am currently a Nuendo user. I am getting really sick of Steinberg's attitude to it's customers - Nuendo was an incredible app with phenomenal potential when it came out, but with every new revision it seems to be driving itself into the ground, so I am looking to switch. Samplitude appears to be the best nearest alternative. However, there is one thing that stops me crossgrading - the video features. Now, Sequoia I must admit offers everything I want and more, but I cannot legitimise the cost - my employers will simply not purchase it for me.

What I am after is a dedicated video 'track' a la Sequoia, so I can have multiple video files on the timeline. I don't need the more advanced features such as editing and capture of video - just a proper 'track' for video. I really think it would be a very good idea for Magix to give this feature to samplitude users and I can see it doing no harm in terms of sales to Sequoia - if anything it will encourage more people (well at least one!) to switch to samplitude.

It is worth mentioning that Cubase, Sonar, Logic, Reaper and Digital Performer (and perhaps Pro Tools) all offer this functionality in their even most basic versions.

If any users and potential users think this is a good idea, please join me on my campaign to encourage Magix to include these features in Samplitude! :)

Hi all,

I agree.

A video track would be a great addition to Samp.

I just finished a local movie project and we moved back and forth between ProTools HD and Samp:

I use both systems at my studio and I wish that I could just stick to one system so I can keep one project per room instead of having to shuffle bookings.

Samp was used for music tracking, mixing, sweetening and premastering.

PT was used for post, assembly, sound fx, ADR, premixing, etc.. referenced to the Quicktime DV files provided by client.

PT was the choice as the surround mix, dolby mo and film transfer was done in another PT equipped studio.

PT HD allows multiple video tracks and you can also edit the video tracks and the audio playlist simultaneously. (great for situations when you've the director in the studio and suddenly has a moment of inspiration to try out a cut on the movie, or whatever changes that arise)

As we worked with individual "reels" (the movie was broken up into 8 reels, approx 15 minutes each), each session or VIP per reel;

it was great to assemble all the movie files (reels) in one timeline to preview the audio mixes and check the flow between reels.

With video track integration in Samp, the workflow and productivity would be so much better and faster.

I could have done all the VO recording & ADR to picture, Sound fx, foley, assembly, pre mixing and final stem mix rendering in one app; then prep all the files and move to the next app.

Like jcorbett mentioned, I also don't need to record video;

only need a video track in the app for basic previewing and editing for the purpose of audio work.

Just thought I chip in a bit.

Best regards,

Nick

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Lots of people still using .avi's with no real need to convert, since Premier and Movie Edit Pro can handle them fine (in my world). Although I'm seeing mostly .m2t's for HD stuff.

I'm finding QT's the least friendly handoff (for some reason).

Greg

I'm a newbie with Sequoia and video. How would you handoff (exchange) files with someone working in a Mac-based environment with Final Cut Pro and using Sequoia for sweetening? Would we have to go through an additional step exporting to Quicktime and then converting to an AVI?

BK

Hi Bob,

I integrate with most Mac-based video editors by:

1. providing audio mix file with the count down tone beeps at the start of the video file,

and

2. using ProTool's "bounce to Quicktime" function, I render a new quicktime file with the audio mix for them to cross reference.

With new video cuts, they send me a quicktime dv file and i load it into PT to make the necessary changes and repeat the above process.

I'm currently on Samp 9 for all music recording, mixing, and mastering work. The PT room is used mostly for post stuff these days.

Cheers.

Nick

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Hopefully someday soon we won't even need Protools :(

I much prefer doing everything in one program.

Greg

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Lots of people still using .avi's with no real need to convert, since Premier and Movie Edit Pro can handle them fine (in my world). Although I'm seeing mostly .m2t's for HD stuff.

I'm finding QT's the least friendly handoff (for some reason).

Greg

I'm a newbie with Sequoia and video. How would you handoff (exchange) files with someone working in a Mac-based environment with Final Cut Pro and using Sequoia for sweetening? Would we have to go through an additional step exporting to Quicktime and then converting to an AVI?

BK

Hi Bob,

Usually, I receive quicktime exports from final cut with either photojpeg(75%) compression or H264 codecs. It works well in Sequoia, but I think Samplitude is somewhat crippled in this aspect - haven't used it for a while so don't remember. In Sequoia, I find that these mentioned formats to perform as good or better (read "more stable") than in Nuendo. None of them can compete with PT that eats everything in terms of video.

One of my complaints is that Sequoia doesn't export to quicktime, but only AVI. So if you want to send previews back to the production it has to be converted to AVI. Usually, I send my mix back to Final Cut either rendered or as an OMF.

And I agree with Nick - no one I know in this business needs the video recording option in a DAW. We need basic established features. I have a couple of request threads over at the Sequoia forum, if you guys take a look there you see what I mean :blink:

Best,

Ola

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So, any more thoughts on this from Magix? :blink:

Just wanted to say that the Magix dev's ROCK!

Greg

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Lots of people still using .avi's with no real need to convert, since Premier and Movie Edit Pro can handle them fine (in my world). Although I'm seeing mostly .m2t's for HD stuff.

I'm finding QT's the least friendly handoff (for some reason).

Greg

I'm a newbie with Sequoia and video. How would you handoff (exchange) files with someone working in a Mac-based environment with Final Cut Pro and using Sequoia for sweetening? Would we have to go through an additional step exporting to Quicktime and then converting to an AVI?

BK

Hi Bob,

Usually, I receive quicktime exports from final cut with either photojpeg(75%) compression or H264 codecs. It works well in Sequoia, but I think Samplitude is somewhat crippled in this aspect - haven't used it for a while so don't remember. In Sequoia, I find that these mentioned formats to perform as good or better (read "more stable") than in Nuendo. None of them can compete with PT that eats everything in terms of video.

One of my complaints is that Sequoia doesn't export to quicktime, but only AVI. So if you want to send previews back to the production it has to be converted to AVI. Usually, I send my mix back to Final Cut either rendered or as an OMF.

And I agree with Nick - no one I know in this business needs the video recording option in a DAW. We need basic established features. I have a couple of request threads over at the Sequoia forum, if you guys take a look there you see what I mean :blink:

Best,

Ola

I haven't had any issues with H.264 QT's in Samplitude. Seems to like the format just fine here.

Also, the EDL transfer from Video ProX directly into Sampliquoia is working OK for audio, but some tests are still being done on multiple segmented video object transfer into Sequoia.

Samplitude still only handles one main video track.

The cheapest solution now is to use Movie Edit Pro (cheap, and by the way, a very good NLE for the money), and import those rendered video files into Samplitude.

One crazy thing is that you can already now drag-n-drop video into friggin' Music Maker directly into the track - but not (yet) in Samplitude.

Again, I think they are working on consistency of this feature across the products - including for V11 Sampliquoia.

Greg

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