Jump to content
DBMusic

Second Thoughts?

Recommended Posts

Having some issues with simply setting up and using existing drum maps.

First, loading existing drum map files (*.map) does not load the instrument names. Is there way to do this? It's a pain to have to set up each of the instrument names when they are contained in the .map file.

Secondly, it appears drum maps are not saved from project to project so I have to create a new drum map with a new project and go through the whole instrument naming thing again. It appears Samplitude only saves this on a project level. This seems a bit odd since the same drum maps are frequently used across projects. I guess if it would load the instrument names it wouldn't be such an issue.

Third, I've been using drum maps to record midi for several years and I cannot seem to record any midi via a midi controller. I have my midi in as my controller, midi out as my controller, Channel out as 10, Drum Map set to my drum map. When I record I get nothing. I have no issue with recording midi from my controller except when trying to utilize a drum map.

And regarding a more general question, does recording over an existing object always remove the original object? Or is there a setting that would allow me to record on to an existing object?

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And regarding a more general question, does recording over an existing object always remove the original object? Or is there a setting that would allow me to record on to an existing object?

Regards,

DB

In short words, the hidden references are tracked by the Take Manager. You can recall any audio that was recorded at the respective position of the timeline at any time by entering the Take Manager, or directly from the VIP by CRTL-Right clicking any Object. The latter works specifically if you have made a smaller segment at a certain position that you like to replace by another take.

Best,

Sebastian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And regarding a more general question, does recording over an existing object always remove the original object? Or is there a setting that would allow me to record on to an existing object?

Regards,

DB

In short words, the hidden references are tracked by the Take Manager. You can recall any audio that was recorded at the respective position of the timeline at any time by entering the Take Manager, or directly from the VIP by CRTL-Right clicking any Object. The latter works specifically if you have made a smaller segment at a certain position that you like to replace by another take.

Best,

Sebastian

Thanks Sebastian.

It's not so much replacing a take segment as adding multiple takes together over the same timeline within the same track. This would mean adding a new take on to an existing object while leaving the previous data intact. An example of this would be if you were adding drum rolls to an existing snare track. Now I see how one can get around this by simply creating another track or simply creating another object/take to replace a segment of the another.

Getting my head around this whole MIDI object paradigm takes some getting used to. Sonar takes a more open approach in that it allows multiple takes in a single track over a given time line while retaining previous data. I see how you can do this in Samplitude but it requires a new track. Limiting the MIDI editor to a given track object is also a bit cumbersome. It's very useful to be able to view and edit multiple MIDI tracks in a single editor view. This is particularly true when composing percussion parts and you need different instrument events to align perfectly with others.

None of this a deal breaker...just a different approach that would take some getting used to.

I was able to figure out the MIDI recording via a drum map. The routing via USB through my Motif ES7 percussion plugin card set up internally on MIDI port 2 was a little different that what I was accustomed to in Sonar.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey DBMusic,

So how's Samp sound to your ears? Did you notice any difference from Sonar?

Hi Scott,

To be honest I have been concentrating on getting my head around the workflow and haven't paid much attention. I'll keep my ears open though.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a complete program crash today while working on a MIDI project. Also, I'm seeing 100% CPU usage on a simple 4 track MIDI project that interfaces with an external synth via USB. Since the project is simply reading MIDI data, why would the CPU usage be so high? This DAW normally doesn't even break a sweat.

Ok, I just closed and re-opened Samplitude and now the project starts running at about 1% CUP usage. The longer I keep playing back the tracks the higher the CPU usage gets. Stopping and starting the playback has no effect. CPU usage just slowly keeps increasing (about 1% every 10 seconds). I have to restart Samplitude to free up the CPU. Very strange. Anyone know what might be happening?

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
An example of this would be if you were adding drum rolls to an existing snare track.

I guess you're talking entirely about recording MIDI while I thought you meant recording audio this time. (See my reply.)

Here, 10.2 has apparently introduced some improvements. But I am probably the wrong person to talk about these things.

Sorry.

Sebastian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Had a complete program crash today while working on a MIDI project. Also, I'm seeing 100% CPU usage on a simple 4 track MIDI project that interfaces with an external synth via USB. Since the project is simply reading MIDI data, why would the CPU usage be so high? This DAW normally doesn't even break a sweat.

Ok, I just closed and re-opened Samplitude and now the project starts running at about 1% CUP usage. The longer I keep playing back the tracks the higher the CPU usage gets. Stopping and starting the playback has no effect. CPU usage just slowly keeps increasing (about 1% every 10 seconds). I have to restart Samplitude to free up the CPU. Very strange. Anyone know what might be happening?

Regards,

DB

I can confirm this issue - but only if you use the fader CC07 mode - The solution now is to avoid the CC07 mapping and wait for 10.21. According to a post to the dev this has been fixed now. ;)

Best,

Rolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Had a complete program crash today while working on a MIDI project. Also, I'm seeing 100% CPU usage on a simple 4 track MIDI project that interfaces with an external synth via USB. Since the project is simply reading MIDI data, why would the CPU usage be so high? This DAW normally doesn't even break a sweat.

Ok, I just closed and re-opened Samplitude and now the project starts running at about 1% CUP usage. The longer I keep playing back the tracks the higher the CPU usage gets. Stopping and starting the playback has no effect. CPU usage just slowly keeps increasing (about 1% every 10 seconds). I have to restart Samplitude to free up the CPU. Very strange. Anyone know what might be happening?

Regards,

DB

I can confirm this issue - but only if you use the fader CC07 mode - The solution now is to avoid the CC07 mapping and wait for 10.21. According to a post to the dev this has been fixed now. ;)

Best,

Rolf

Thanks Rolf. Good to know.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...and I believe there was a tweak in 10.2 with the MIDI comping modes to provide options for overwriting in-place, or using the Take Manager.

It actually IS writing in the same track, just that you can now click through the various takes to grab what you like.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...and I believe there was a tweak in 10.2 with the MIDI comping modes to provide options for overwriting in-place, or using the Take Manager.

It actually IS writing in the same track, just that you can now click through the various takes to grab what you like.

Greg

Hi Greg,

I believe this is something I could get around by simply adding a new MIDI track.

A more troublesome issue for me is the limitation of the MIDI Editor to an object level. I see Samplitude treats MIDI in this regard much the same way it does audio. For those who use MIDI as a composition tool it is very useful to be able to 1) see the entire track in the editor (you would have to glue all track objects to do this in Samplitude) and 2) be able to see multiple tracks superimposed in the editor and be able to switch quickly to which track you're editing. Also, the use of what Sonar calls Groove Clips is very useful. These are basically repeatable patterns that can quickly and easily be painted/drug in either direction (in Samplitude you have to copy and paste the objects).

Obviously there are ways to accomplish what you need to do in Samplitude, but for my composition needs I find these MIDI features very useful.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...and I believe there was a tweak in 10.2 with the MIDI comping modes to provide options for overwriting in-place, or using the Take Manager.

It actually IS writing in the same track, just that you can now click through the various takes to grab what you like.

Greg

Hi Greg,

I believe this is something I could get around by simply adding a new MIDI track.

A more troublesome issue for me is the limitation of the MIDI Editor to an object level. I see Samplitude treats MIDI in this regard much the same way it does audio. For those who use MIDI as a composition tool it is very useful to be able to 1) see the entire track in the editor (you would have to glue all track objects to do this in Samplitude) and 2) be able to see multiple tracks superimposed in the editor and be able to switch quickly to which track you're editing. Also, the use of what Sonar calls Groove Clips is very useful. These are basically repeatable patterns that can quickly and easily be painted/drug in either direction (in Samplitude you have to copy and paste the objects).

Obviously there are ways to accomplish what you need to do in Samplitude, but for my composition needs I find these MIDI features very useful.

Regards,

DB

You don't have to glue the objects before editing - just group highlight all the objects you want - or shift+click, or ctrl+click - and open the editor from there. This way you should get all the MIDI you want to edit. It also works conversely if you want to edit just by range.

Also, you can group the objects across multiple tracks, and then in the editor turn on the colors for the various tracks before editing. The track you want to edit will be in the pull-down at the top. It should also be default I believe be editable by selecting a note/even in the editor, and this will become your active editing sequence.

I've seen Sonar's groove clips, and Samp. has a similar thing - just ctrl+drag to copy an object, or ctrl+d copy as many times as you want (or I think there is also a ctrl+L default for multiple object copy).

There's a good MIDI video demo somewhere up on youtube as well as on the Samplitude site.

By the way, having seen the Sonar demos (with the new Roland relationship) at NAMM, left me fairly unimpressed. Roland's hardware integration with Sonar8 is 'groovy' and all that, but seemed somehow restrictive, since you're now tied into their hardware. It's a subjective choice for $5K to get into this 'V-Studio' system.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...and I believe there was a tweak in 10.2 with the MIDI comping modes to provide options for overwriting in-place, or using the Take Manager.

It actually IS writing in the same track, just that you can now click through the various takes to grab what you like.

Greg

Hi Greg,

I believe this is something I could get around by simply adding a new MIDI track.

A more troublesome issue for me is the limitation of the MIDI Editor to an object level. I see Samplitude treats MIDI in this regard much the same way it does audio. For those who use MIDI as a composition tool it is very useful to be able to 1) see the entire track in the editor (you would have to glue all track objects to do this in Samplitude) and 2) be able to see multiple tracks superimposed in the editor and be able to switch quickly to which track you're editing. Also, the use of what Sonar calls Groove Clips is very useful. These are basically repeatable patterns that can quickly and easily be painted/drug in either direction (in Samplitude you have to copy and paste the objects).

Obviously there are ways to accomplish what you need to do in Samplitude, but for my composition needs I find these MIDI features very useful.

Regards,

DB

You don't have to glue the objects before editing - just group highlight all the objects you want - or shift+click, or ctrl+click - and open the editor from there. This way you should get all the MIDI you want to edit. It also works conversely if you want to edit just by range.

Also, you can group the objects across multiple tracks, and then in the editor turn on the colors for the various tracks before editing. The track you want to edit will be in the pull-down at the top. It should also be default I believe be editable by selecting a note/even in the editor, and this will become your active editing sequence.

I've seen Sonar's groove clips, and Samp. has a similar thing - just ctrl+drag to copy an object, or ctrl+d copy as many times as you want (or I think there is also a ctrl+L default for multiple object copy).

There's a good MIDI video demo somewhere up on youtube as well as on the Samplitude site.

By the way, having seen the Sonar demos (with the new Roland relationship) at NAMM, left me fairly unimpressed. Roland's hardware integration with Sonar8 is 'groovy' and all that, but seemed somehow restrictive, since you're now tied into their hardware. It's a subjective choice for $5K to get into this 'V-Studio' system.

Greg

Greg,

Ok..excellent! By shift-clicking the MIDI objects they will be added to the editor...including separate tracks. Thanks! Than one had me worried. ;)

CTRL+DRAG isn't the same thing as a groove clip in Sonar. The nice thing about groove clips is that it's so easy just to drag an edge and automatically reproduce the pattern across any length of the track. So much easier than having to copy and paste. Also, another benefit is that if you need to make a change in the pattern you just need only make the change in the clip and re-drag and the change is perpetuated. Much easier than having to delete all your pattern objects, make the change to the original object, then copy and paste again. Believe me, it's a very useful tool when working with patten based parts.

Sonar's direction of late and their relationship with Roland doesn't impress me either. The V-Studio may interest some but there's not much excitement about it from Sonar users. The notion of a pre-configured system that you basically just turn on and go sounds attractive, but I would agree that being restricted to the hardware doesn't appeal to me at all.

Thanks again for the tip on expanding the view of the MIDI editor.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi DB, I too am trying the demo of Samp and plan on purchasing the crossgrade if I can figure out one show-stopping bug that I am experiencing (I won't hijack your thread with that).

Regarding the "Groove Clip" like behavior, simply select an object (audio or midi) and hit Ctrl-L. That turns the object into a looped object which can then be dragged out and repeated like Groove Clips in Sonar. It took me a while to figure that one out as well.

Hope that helps

DS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Regarding the "Groove Clip" like behavior, simply select an object (audio or midi) and hit Ctrl-L. That turns the object into a looped object which can then be dragged out and repeated like Groove Clips in Sonar. It took me a while to figure that one out as well.

Hope that helps

DS

Yes, ctrl+L does the trick (thought I had mentioned that).

Anyways, the drag-copy in Sonar is basically a ripoff of Acid Pro anyways, and I highly doubt Magix will/could implement this, since the engine in Samplitude is very different from Sonar.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi DB, I too am trying the demo of Samp and plan on purchasing the crossgrade if I can figure out one show-stopping bug that I am experiencing (I won't hijack your thread with that).

Regarding the "Groove Clip" like behavior, simply select an object (audio or midi) and hit Ctrl-L. That turns the object into a looped object which can then be dragged out and repeated like Groove Clips in Sonar. It took me a while to figure that one out as well.

Hope that helps

DS

Hey stone,

Thanks! That pretty much duplicates the Sonar's groove clip feature...which is really useful.

If you have issues you'd like to express in this thread, please do. As someone else evaluating Samplitude, I'd be very interested in your opinions.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Regarding the "Groove Clip" like behavior, simply select an object (audio or midi) and hit Ctrl-L. That turns the object into a looped object which can then be dragged out and repeated like Groove Clips in Sonar. It took me a while to figure that one out as well.

Hope that helps

DS

Yes, ctrl+L does the trick (thought I had mentioned that).

Anyways, the drag-copy in Sonar is basically a ripoff of Acid Pro anyways, and I highly doubt Magix will/could implement this, since the engine in Samplitude is very different from Sonar.

Greg

Hey Greg,

At least they're ripping off good ideas! ;)

The Samplitude CTRL+L feature (yes, you did mention it) duplicates this functionality so that's a good thing.

I wouldn't expect Samplitude to duplicate anything in Sonar. I'm just trying to evaluate the product per my needs and workflow. So far...so good!

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey DB, cool, glad that's what you were looking for.

As far as my thoughts on Samplitude, there's a lot to like. I love the mixer, workflow , look & sound (maybe placebo but it does sound more 3D to me). The effects that I've tried are excellent (haven't tried Ammunition yet). It's very customizable with the toolbars and keyboard shortcuts and has been very stable on my system (10.1 DLV). I've run into a few quirks here & there but it's been mostly user error.

The one "bug" I have is hung notes using Omnisphere. If I start playback directly at the beginning of a midi note, the note will hang until I press stop. If I start playback 1/8 of a beat before the beginning of the note then the note plays back as expected. I've tried everything I know, different Samp engines, monitoring on-off, different buffers etc. This only happens with Omni. If I insert a different VSTI and use the same midi object I can't reproduce this. Also, I have no problem with Omni on any other host. I thought it might be my system but after a recent OS drive crash, I reinstalled everything on a new drive & tried the Samp demo again and I get the same thing.

Other than that one showstopper, I really like this program a lot. I too am an ex-Sonar user (left after version 6 due to stability problems) and stability is a big deal to me as well. Once I learned the workflow of Samp, I am able to do my work quite rapidly. But, if I can't figure out why Omni hangs, I may have to hold off on the crossgrade.

Good luck with your decision,

DS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, when you finally fire up Ammunition, be prepared for quite a surprise. It is VERY good.

There are companies out there selling their one limiter/compressor for the price of Samplitude, so beware :P

I also have Omnisphere, but have not encountered the stuck MIDI note start issue. Omnisphere IS currently my one big resource hog - right up there with Kontakt3, which is also CPU hungry.

All I can recommend is to try to keep your VIP and ASIO buffers set at the same number. This sometimes helps with burdening devices.

Also note, that I don't think many of the developers test their plugins/synths in Samplitude's hybrid engine scheme, so they're used to developing for those other 'boxy' programs :P .

Be prepared for an epiphany moment when you start hotrodding the workflow and navigation with hotkeys. I'm about 80% hotkey driven now, and can move very fast through the program now. For me it was like having a 'eureka moment' ;)

Have fun,

Greg

p.s. by the way, it's very helpful to have your system hardware configuration in your signature. That way people that have similar configurations can chime in and help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tip, Greg.

Unfortunately no joy. I think I've tried every buffer combination known to man by now. I still have a couple of weeks left on the demo so I'll keep plugging away at trying to find the cause. Like I said, most everything else works great on my system and I do like the program very much. I don't know if my interface drivers could cause this but I guess it's possible. I have a Presonus Firestudio Tube and the hardware is great but Presonus is notorious for buggy drivers (I know, should have gone with RME). I'll try another interface and see if thats it.

Looking forward to firing up Ammunition some day.

Thanks again,

DS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey DB, cool, glad that's what you were looking for.

As far as my thoughts on Samplitude, there's a lot to like. I love the mixer, workflow , look & sound (maybe placebo but it does sound more 3D to me). The effects that I've tried are excellent (haven't tried Ammunition yet). It's very customizable with the toolbars and keyboard shortcuts and has been very stable on my system (10.1 DLV). I've run into a few quirks here & there but it's been mostly user error.

The one "bug" I have is hung notes using Omnisphere. If I start playback directly at the beginning of a midi note, the note will hang until I press stop. If I start playback 1/8 of a beat before the beginning of the note then the note plays back as expected. I've tried everything I know, different Samp engines, monitoring on-off, different buffers etc. This only happens with Omni. If I insert a different VSTI and use the same midi object I can't reproduce this. Also, I have no problem with Omni on any other host. I thought it might be my system but after a recent OS drive crash, I reinstalled everything on a new drive & tried the Samp demo again and I get the same thing.

Other than that one showstopper, I really like this program a lot. I too am an ex-Sonar user (left after version 6 due to stability problems) and stability is a big deal to me as well. Once I learned the workflow of Samp, I am able to do my work quite rapidly. But, if I can't figure out why Omni hangs, I may have to hold off on the crossgrade.

Good luck with your decision,

DS

Now that my MIDI concerns are resolved, the only thing close to a show stopper I've seen is this CPU usage creep with playback of MIDI. As I understand it's something that has been verified and a fixed aimed at 10.2.1. I had one program crash (which I think was related to the CPU issue) and a couple of times where playback would freeze at the very start of a file.

I hit MIDI pretty hard last week and am looking forward to putting audio recording, editing, mixing, and mastering through it's paces. Overall I'm very impressed.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try turning off CC07 on the mixer faders and set them for audio volume only, and see if that shakes it off.

I never had these issues here, but other people have reported something similar at times.

Also, what plugins are you using, if any, and in what fashion? Aux channel, in-channel, etc.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Try turning off CC07 on the mixer faders and set them for audio volume only, and see if that shakes it off.

I never had these issues here, but other people have reported something similar at times.

Also, what plugins are you using, if any, and in what fashion? Aux channel, in-channel, etc.

Greg

Hi Greg,

By "turning off CC07 on the mixer faders" do you mean mean de-selecting Controller 7 in the "Automatic Column Fader mode for MIDI Tracks" section of the System Options - MIDI? If so, I've done that and it had no affect.

I'm not using any plugins...just 5 straight MIDI tracks set up to interface with an external synth (Motif ES7).

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Try turning off CC07 on the mixer faders and set them for audio volume only, and see if that shakes it off.

I never had these issues here, but other people have reported something similar at times.

Also, what plugins are you using, if any, and in what fashion? Aux channel, in-channel, etc.

Greg

Hi Greg,

By "turning off CC07 on the mixer faders" do you mean mean de-selecting Controller 7 in the "Automatic Column Fader mode for MIDI Tracks" section of the System Options - MIDI? If so, I've done that and it had no affect.

I'm not using any plugins...just 5 straight MIDI tracks set up to interface with an external synth (Motif ES7).

Regards,

DB

I think Dax mentioned turning it off at the fader (which may be the same thing). Right-click over the fader handle and set the volume mode for audio only.

Don't worry about the system config. at this point.

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Try turning off CC07 on the mixer faders and set them for audio volume only, and see if that shakes it off.

I never had these issues here, but other people have reported something similar at times.

Also, what plugins are you using, if any, and in what fashion? Aux channel, in-channel, etc.

Greg

Hi Greg,

By "turning off CC07 on the mixer faders" do you mean mean de-selecting Controller 7 in the "Automatic Column Fader mode for MIDI Tracks" section of the System Options - MIDI? If so, I've done that and it had no affect.

I'm not using any plugins...just 5 straight MIDI tracks set up to interface with an external synth (Motif ES7).

Regards,

DB

I think Dax mentioned turning it off at the fader (which may be the same thing). Right-click over the fader handle and set the volume mode for audio only.

Don't worry about the system config. at this point.

Greg

Thanks, that does appear to work around the issue.

Regarding the Wave Editor, is it possible to open it for a single audio object? Opening the Wave Editor appears to open several takes. Or is there a way to simply bounce the audio object in place to apply the fades? The reason I ask is because in converting audio objects to loops and dragging, the fade out is not applied to each loop section but is instead moved to the very end. Without being able to apply a small fade at the end of the object when looped it will sometimes create a little click or pop at the beginning of each loop (typically happens when the original audio extended beyond the object end). I've been able a apply the Wave Editor to apply this fadeout successfully, but I keep getting multiple takes when opened. Interestingly, instead of looping an object if you simply copy the object and place it in sequence there is no clicking when playback crosses from one object to the next. Happens only when looping. This happens in Sonar too but is easily resolved by place a small fade at the end of a clip and you can then quickly just bounce the audio clip in place before creating your groove clip.

Regards,

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×