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TomW

Different scripting solutions, how to simlifie it and eventualy get on

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Hello developer of scripts and user of scripts for accessibility.

I know that there a several scripting solutions out there to get better accessibility. I know also that there are several solutions for several screen readers, some scripts are for JAWS, some for NVDA and Copra, also for brail devices.

The idea is that all scripters work together on one solution, or maybe on different solutions for different readers, but please dont work all on different solutions for the same reader, that is waste of energy and time, isn't it?

So I know steve did a lot in scripting and has a good solution for samplitude. also Manfred did al lot, also patrick and friends... I am sure i forgot somebody but i ask you all, is there a way that we can merge solutions together to bigger and better solutions... maybe as an open source project on github or so... or maybe seperated git repositories for different solutions, but in a way that everybody know about it, and not start his own way for things that already exists.

I would like to know from everybody, is that a way that we can go? what you think about? Or are there other ideas?

greetings

Tom

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Thanks for this post Tom, just read it.  I think someone has to document what solution has what access to samplitude.  is it minimal access? or is it extensive?  Also, it has to be with a screenreader that accommodates the majority of users.  I have not been aware of any other solution apart from what Manfred had done, but this isn't at all anywhere near to what Samplitude Access offers.  Samplitude Access gives around 95% full access to Samplitude, how much access does these other solutions give?  It's something I don't know. Best steve.

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hello Tom Steve and all,

I'm not a developer, but I became a Samplitude user thanks to Steve's solution for the jaws screenreader.

I must say that I'm extremely happy about it. As everything, it can be improved, but so far, I can already record, playback, insert tracks, buses, auxiliary buses and so on, insert effects on each of them, adjust tracks and bus settings, access almost every plug-in including third party ones, draw Ranges, split, glue and manipulate  objects, copy paste delete and ripple delete, access the MIDI editor, the object editor with its own effects fade and timeshift tabs, and much more.

The only other solution I knew about was working with Cobra, but I did not feel like buying another screenreader as the Jaws solution was already available to me.

If other solutions for Jaws exist, I do not know about them. But it would be nice if everyone could work hands in hands to make this accessibility solution even better than it already is.

Kind regards,

JPR

 

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Dear All,

Like JPR, I am an end user and not a developer.  While I am primarily a MIDi focused composer, I find that Samplitude Access does a remarkable job of providing access to the key features my workflow requires:
MIDi editing
Object manipulation
Soloing, Muting and Monitoring of individual tracks or groups of tracks
Conversion of MIDi to Audio
Instantiation of 3rd party VST instruments, including Independence,  and more.  

In addition to this, I get the sense that Steve’s solution introduced a great many blind and visually impaired users to Samplitude who would not otherwise have been aware of your product, particularly in the US, where you may not have optimum market penetration.  Some of this was the result of the arguably timely demise of Cakewalk’s SONAR and the resultant need for an orphaned customer base to find a new and effective solution to replace that with which some of them had worked for more than a decade.  Others were enticed by your end of year promotional pricing campaign, a very well timed effort, I must say.  

I’m not aware of duplicate JAWS solutions, at least, not in English.  I’ve never heard of a screen reader called “Cobra.”While I certainly understand your desire to consolidate your interactions with the sight impaired market to a select few developers with highly developed skill sets, an open source approach has the potential to be counterproductive vis-a-vis that goal because an open source project could cause too many contributors to dilute focus and direction of the solution.  This would, in turn, compel Magix to address more and more divergent requests making demands on a finite resource pool.  

In the end, the solution that provides the greatest access to Samplitude’s various functions should be the one that secures the greatest support from Magix.  Also, serious thought should be given to the commitment shown by the developers of the various solutions, not only with respect to their potential longevity in the market, but also with respect to the passion and number of potential end users that solution’ and its developer can potentially bring to Magix’s customer base.

I hope you find this helpful.  

Sincerely,
Kevin L. Gibbs (aka Steinway Artist and composer, Kevin Kern)
https://kevinkern.com  

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HI Tom, Steve and everyone else reading this. i'm one of the samplitude access beta testers so i've been involved with Steve's solution almost right from the start. i've seen it grow exponentially over the last 18 months. I haven't encountered any daw at any stage of my music production career wich had this level of accessibility. i'm a producer/mixing engineer/mastering engineer and samplitude access ensures i can satisfy all my production needs from recording midi and audio, editing material via objects etc, manipulate midi via midi editor, use builtin as well as 3rd party vst's and instruments, mix with confidence using all the samplitude tools and also master my clients productions to the best of my ability. Yes samplitude access is a work in progress and yes we've encountered a few bumps along the way but my professional opinion is that no access solution for any daw comes even close to what samplitude access provide for visually impaired users. This is a solution for the jaws screen reader and i have no knowledge of other samplitude solutions but i doubt they could give the level of access provided by samplitude access. This solution has brought so many new blind users to magix and i sincerely hope all of these new users use this platform to voice there satisfaction with samplitude access. kind regards. Len Viljoen

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Hi Tom, Steve, et al.

 

To echo what others have said, Samplitude Access provides the greatest amount of accessibility by far, seems to have the most users, at least English-speaking ones, and is the result of tireless efforts on behalf of first, Tim Burgess, then, Steve Spamer, Phil Muir's documentation, Lenn's beta testing and audio tutorial production...

 

It represents an ongoing team effort I doubt you will fine elsewhere. Take a look at the level of accessibility it provides, compared to other solutions, the quality documentation, the audio tutorials being produced, the vibrant mailing list and Whatsapp group where users can receive help and have their questions answered... Does this level of accessibility and community support exist for blind users of Samplitude elsewhere?

 

As for combining various access solutions, at least two years of constant work has gone into Samplitude Access, so unless developers of other solutions are willing to lend their talents without trying to unduly influence the direction of the project, I think some sort of group effort is a bad idea. Too many cooks spoil the soup and all that. :) I would never presume to speak for Steve, our valiant Jaws scripter, but he would probably love to work with other talented Jaws scripters, as long as they are willing to put their pet projects aside and help out.

 

I'm an ex-Sonar user who came to Samplitude Access, hoping it would provide similar functionality to what I was used to with sonar. It exceeded my expectations by a wide margin! I can confidently and independently record, mix, or master a project, from start to finish using this accessibility solution. I have never have this degree of control over my work, always farming out at least some of the process to sighted folks.  

 

I hope Magix decide to back the right horse in this very small race, help us further integrate our solution into the product, and even, one day, become screen reader agnostic, able to work with both Jaws and NVDA.

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Hi Tom and All. Firstly I want to thank you personally for all of the great accessibility work you have put into Samplitude and latterly Sound Forge. It is greatly appreciated!!  Our hope is that as things move forward accessibility will continue to improve in Samplitude and Sequoia. We also hope that there is an accessibility framework that all development teams working at Magix adhere to in order that accessibility will improve in all Magix software. If not then we may be able to advise on the way forward.


Like Len I am also a Samplitude beta tester. The Samplitude Access project has not been around very long (since July 2016) and yet probably has the highest user base and when it comes to English speaking users around the world, undoubtedly so. Further more there’s absolutely no reason why the Samplitude Access scripts and documentation couldn’t be translated into other languages such as German. I note that Steve posted today that there are around 100 members on list and a large number of those are Samplitude users. I Want to publically thank Steve Spamer for continuing to drive the project forward with his formidable scripting skills and Tim Burgess for his continues support with script development. It's an honour to be involved in this project along side Steve Len and Can, writing, editing and collating the documentation.


I have used Samplitude Pro X3 Suite to independently record, edit, mix master and create a DDP. Even Adding all of the DDP data to an online database. As a producer, mixing and mastering engineer, I haven’t been able to do that until now.


There’s no doubt that on the Windows platform, we can do fantastic things in Samplitude. It’s amazing to have another DAW available on Windows that end users can benefit from using. Further more the fact that end users have access to an E-mail list, whatsapp group, the Samplitude Access YouTube channel where end users can listen to other visually impaired Samplitude users using the software and the Samplitude Access website:


http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk/


Where people can download the scripts, Samplitude Pro X3 Suite and Samplitude Pro X3 trials. All of this means that people can get up and running as there is a lot of great help out there. Further more; Len has indeed put together some excellent and very reasonably priced Samplitude audio tutorials.


As for other solutions with regard to using Samplitude, I would love to hear about those and would be delighted if there were anything else out there that offers such comprehensive support. The Samplitude Access team recognise that it’s not easy for visually impaired users to get started. That’s why we put a really fantastic solution together.


As Chris previously pointed out there are indeed a lot of resources available for end users. Further more every Window in Samplitude has Jaws help specifically written for that Window which end users can easily access.


I quickly looked through the up and coming Samplitude Access release documentation which is about to come out but rather than attempt to explain what is covered, I thought it best if I simply paste in some of the headings from the documentation. The documents cover a lot of detail and are a kind of manual for Samplitude Access plus a lot of helpful resources with regard to registering the product with Magix, downloading Samplitude patches extending the Samplitude demo etc.

From the read me:


Differences Between Samplitude Pro X3 And Samplitude Pro X3 Suite,
Screen Resolution,
Recommended Windows Settings,
Fixing Potential Windows 10 Display Problems,
A Note About Using The Samplitude Suite Trial To Obtain the Full Installer For Samplitude Pro X3 Suite,
Tips For Installing Samplitude Pro x3 Suite,
Installing Additional Magix Instruments,
Installing Independence Or Independence Pro,
Adding Shortcuts To Samplitude Documentation On Windows 10,
Installing The Samplitude INZ file Into Samplitude Pro X3 And Samplitude Pro X3 Suite,
Getting To The Samplitude "Start Selection" Dialog Box After You Have Unchecked The "Always show this dialog during start" Checkbox,
Changes To The INI Files,
Using Plug-ins With HotSpotClicker,
Known Issues,
Audio Set-up In Samplitude,
Configuring MIDI Devices,
Adding A Control Surface,
Enabling Komplete Kontrol Transport Controls IN Samplitude,
Adding VST's,
Setting up Samplitude To Record Multiple Objects Ungrouped,
Enabling Automatic MIDI Record Switch On Current Track,
Enabling Disabling MIDI Echo In Samplitude,
How To Insert A Softsynth Or Audio Affect,
Inserting A Softsynth With Multiple Outputs,
Enabling Playback On A Softsynth,
Editing Objects In The MIDI Editor,
How To Move To A Different Position In A Project When In the Samplitude MIDI Editor,
How To Quantize A MIDI Object,
Ungrouping Objects After Recording On Multiple Tracks,
Examples For Non-Contiguous And Multiple Object Selection,
How To Change The Velocity Of MIDI Notes,
How To Retrospectively Record MIDI On A Track,
Recording Automation On A Track/Bus,
Automating Sends Or Affects,
Adding Markers To A Project,
Inserting Wav Files On To A Specific Audio Track With Timestamps IN Samplitude Pro x3 Suite,
How To Create An Exported Multitrack With Mono and Stereo Stems In Samplitude,
How To retrospectively record Audio ON A Track,
Enabling Post Recording On An Audio Track,
A Note ON Ranges And Objects,
A Note ON Saving VIP Files As Templates,
Creating A DDP With Standard 2 Second Pauses (Samplitude Pro X3 Suite Only),
Creating A DDP With Non Standard Pauses (Samplitude Pro X3 Suite Only),
Registering Samplitude Pro x3 And Samplitude Pro x3 Suite,
Frequently Asked Questions,
Extending A 7 Day Demo To 30 Days,
Reporting Bugs And Contributing To The Project,
And Getting More Help.


Keystrokes document:


Keystrokes For Obtaining Window Information,
VIP/Arranger Window Keystrokes,
VIP-Ranges,
VIP-Objects,
Selecting Objects IN Zoom Mode,
VIP/Arranger Window Direct Shortcuts,
VIP/Arranger Window -FX Shortcuts,
EQ Keystrokes,
Automation Curves (Sends 1 - 8, volume and pan),
VIP/Arranger Window -Toggled Windows,
VIP/Arranger Window-Misc,
Mixer Window,
Transport Console,
Visualization-Meters,
Timeline Zooming In The VIP/Arranger Window,
Track Zooming In Zoom Mode:
Multiple Track Selection:
Object Editor,
Midi Editor,
Object Manager,
Range Editor,
Parameter View Keystrokes,
Native plug-in View Keystrokes,
Kontakt Specific Keystrokes,
Automation Node Edit Dialog,
Cross Fade Editor Window,
Normalization Window,
Tempo Map Window,
Audio Quantization,
Elastic Audio,
Resampling Time Stretching,
Software Instrument Routing window,
MIDI Global Quantize Settings Window,
Midi Velocity Dynamics,
Midi Editor/Midi Transpose,
Take Manager,
Marker Manager,
Track Editor,
Curve Generator,
Advanced Dynamics,
Amp Simulation,
Distortion,
Echo Delay Reverb,
Multiband Dynamics,
Track Aux Send Routing Window,
Time Display Window
And Vocoder Window.

 

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tom,

 

I have been a blind user of Sonar for a long time and helped with some of the JAWS scritping for that product.  I've been following the progress Steve and others have been making so that Samplitude has become not only accessible but actually useable and productive for those using a screen reader.  They have done an outstanding job with this project and so I have now made the switch to Samplitude and have started digging in to learn its functionality.

 

I also understand that Magix developers appreciate the challenges to those using screen readers to access programs that are often complex and graphical in nature and applaud the fact that you have engaged with those in the community who are knowledgeable about using screen readers, writing scripts, and providing important feedback.

 

I thus have confidence that this product and the tools for working with a screen reader will continue to be supported and improve over time.  I wish more developers would engage in such a positive manner.

 

As for developing a unified access solution...Although there are many screen reading programs available around the world, JAWS is the leading commercial solution in this arena.  In addition JAWS has a mature set of scripting tools with which many JAWS users are familiar and can use to improve access to programs.

 

One other note:  I often make the distinction between "accessibility" and "useability" of a solution or program.  A program may be "accessible" in that a user can navigate to and activate windows elements such as buttons, checkboxes, dialogs, etc using keyboard commands.  But that does not mean that the program is necessarily "useable" in an efficient and productive manner for a person who cannot see the screen.  One must also consider the work flow in determining "useability".  thus, for example, if a user can navigate to a button but it takes 20 presses of the tab key to get to the button, the user's ability to complete a projrect in a timely fashion could be diminished.  Similarly, if a user has to expend many keystrokes to view a meter reading and then nanvigate back to another part of the screen to perform a function based on the meter reading, this will make the work process slow and cumbersome.  thus, even if a program is "accessible" from the standpoint of the user being able to read and navigate to all elements within the UI, some scripting will inevitably be needed in order to make the program "useable".

 

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the progress that will be made with making Samplitude a user-friendly program for the blind and offer to help out as I can and as needed.

 

 

--Pete

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Just to add that although I have heard of other accessibility solutions available for Samplitude I haven’t been able to find them online,  or access them in any way. If these other solutions really are solutions then they should be available for all end users to use.

 

 

If not and they are only being used by 1 or 2 people and they are not being made available for everyone to use then they are not solutions at all.

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 Hello,

I'm an other beta tester of the Samplitude Access Project and coder of the our new solution that we will release it as soon as possible.

First of all, I totally agreed Pete's comment about "accessibility" and "useability". especially Steve Spamer and we are not only creating accessibility solution for Samplitude, we are also making everything more easier for end-users.

Yes, unified accessibility solution will be awesome, but I couldn't find any source/material/script/application on the internet about other accessibility solution that mentioned in the first post. So can we say that "they are accessibility solutions for all users"?

I believe that other friends will explain everything more better than my comments.

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Just to add to what Can has said. The scripts and other files are already available in a zip file on:

 

http://www.samplitudeaccess.org.uk/download

 

Can has indeed made a significant coding contribution to the project and all will be revealed very soon ;-)

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Hello all

I invested in Samplitude with Samplitude Access, and I would like to echo some of the other sentiments above: It's a marvelous project, undertaken by Steve Spamer and other volunteers.

The amount of accessibility available is fantastic, and it's great to see how improvements to the accessibility is being made constantly. I'd like to thank all at Magix, as well as the Samplitude Access team for your tremendous work.

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Hi

 

I also would like to add my voice by echoing what others have said.  It's fantastic the effort both the scripting volunteers have put in and that Magix seem to really want to support the VI audio community in working with Samplitude.  Long may this collaboration continue!

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6 hours ago, Ian Rattray said:

Hi

 

I also would like to add my voice by echoing what others have said.  It's fantastic the effort both the scripting volunteers have put in and that Magix seem to really want to support the VI audio community in working with Samplitude.  Long may this collaboration continue!

Hey Ian. Nice to see you posting here. Just to add that Ian is another Samplitude Access user. I note that so far the only posts I have read here have been from other Samplitude Access users. Would be nice to se posts from people using other solutions :-)

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