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Equalizer

Are sales usually in September?

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I get a chuckle every time I see a notification that my simple thread asking about a sale is generating so much discussion. :)  I know we were told to not discuss anymore so I held back.  I do agree with the one statement though - long lifecycle/trajectory.  I've come to appreciate this evermore recently both in hardware/software.  I stay away from hardware companies that release new stuff every cycle just to say they have something new (ahem, Universal Audio Apollo, cough).  Lynx and RME on the other hand - fabulous.  once it works, you know it's going to work for a LONG time.  Same with software - Live 9 lasted a very long time.  I didn't want to go to 10, but now that I use it, I am happy to be in it, and I expect another long lifecycle.  Even with hardware - I was considering, for example, Jomox AlphaBase and the Kordbot controller recently - but I realized, in both cases, probably lots of firmware updates are coming over next year or two, and I just don't want to deal with that on hardware.  If it's so complicated that it needs firmware updates as regularly as a software product might get updates, it's almost useless to me.  (I do have the Tempest and honestly I am glad they put out a "final" version of the firmware... no more worrying/checking is there any "new" stuff, fixes, etc.)

Well I guess that was a random outburst, I apologize, and thanks for listening! :)  I guess my point is, I like that Samplitude has done a lot right for so long.  It is good to hear they are even giving X3 an update soon.  Although I know many are unhappy they drop work on old versions.  (I think that is more the Magix side, same thing with Acid Pro, which I am not happy about... new major version, for what... no purpose... still same bugs as in 8... but I never use it anyway, so I don't care too much, it was more of a nostalgia impulse buy, plus some of the loops are unique and useful.)

 

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On 8/23/2019 at 12:04 PM, tdor said:

Every Windows system is different, left alone the hardware we all use. Thus, there are many factors contributing to some "sluggish" behavior of X4, or any of your programs. You may need to optimize Windows for Audio Production, likely if you have an older PC.

Check on your graphic card first, do you use NVIDIA or AMD? If it is NVIDIA, that could be the culprit in combination with X4. Not nvidia in general, but maybe your specific model. If you have an AMD card, the problem might be somewhere else. Same is true for ITG, many users he reported best results with integrated graphics. I use ITG combined with AMD to drive three screens, no issues. I had issues with an nvidia card, latency, and occasionally sluggish graphics, but not only in Samplitude.

If you want a good score editor, have a look at MuseScore, export from Samplitude using xml.

BTW: My X5 "screenshot" is a montage of Digital Performer and Samplitude

The only applications that have this issue on my machine are Samplitude (every Music Studio and Pro X4) and the MAGIX Music Maker.

So it has something to do with the UI code or framework.

They did bug fixes in Samplitude Pro X4 to optimize the loading and display of the waveforms in the arranger... so this is probably related to that issue (the reasons they would perform these optimizations), as it only happens when I have a VIP loaded (i.e. with waveforms on display).  With a clean arranger, the UI is snappier, because it doesn't have much to draw.

This behavior is completely reproduceable on my Laptop, which has Intel Graphics, as well as another Laptop I own with an AMD iGPU... so it's not an Nvidia graphics issue.  It's an issue with MAGIX's software.

It's not a driver issue, it has something to do with how the UI is drawn in the application.

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On 8/23/2019 at 4:32 PM, tdor said:

What is this in reference to? desire, needs, cycles, I didn't post anything related to this :huh:

Please read my post as some general advice, it's not Magix' fault that nvidia releases every once in a while crap products/and drivers, and they do. Further, nvidia licenses their design to different manufacturers, YMMV. Samplitude's GUI sure should arrive in the 21st century. Until then, make it work for you.

EVEN MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, 15.1.1.236  is not the latest version - it's Build 387 now :excl: it has been praised by many users here.

Further, for all who use X3, tech support informed me that there will be an update as well.

 

It's not an Nvidia driver issue.  I've already tested on machines with Intel and AMD iGPUs which are weaker than my desktop.  The problem isn't even exclusive to Samplitude.  It also affects Music Maker, for example.  The driver and vendor of the GPU is completely ruled out, at this point... unless they're all to blame?

I wasn't talking about look and feel.  I was talking about performance.  Looks are subjective, and aren't worth debating.

I worked with support about some of these problems.  There was no resolution, and it certainly wasn't the fault of "my machines" or "the vendor of my GPUs."  It's MAGIX's problem, not Nvidia's, Intel's, or AMD's.

Also, Samplitude Pro X4 Suite has been on sale for $149 for the past 4-5 months.

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"Samplitude Pro X4 Suite has been on sale for $149 for the past 4-5 months," that's right, of course I know that. Magix runs these Samplitude sales since January 2018
Everyone here knows that. But not everyone wants to purchase X4, for various reasons.

I was not talking about look and feel unless you misunderstood the word "design" - the term can be used for other situations than visuals, e.g. design of a circuit board, research design, design of an engine, etc.

Since you have already gone through troubleshooting with tech support, that may be a good time to ask for a refund.

Best, Thomas

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If you have nVidia - do you have, by any chance, a G-Sync compatible monitor?  Or even if not - try creating a custom application/game profile in the nVidia control center, and be sure to set it to NOT use variable frame rate/g-sync/v-sync, etc.  Set it to FIXED refresh rate only (at 60 or 120Hz or whatever your monitor's normal optimal refresh rate is).  I had this same issue with Live 10 where the interface was slow as molasses.  Adding it to nVidia control center as mentioned fixed it right up.  Basically because it loaded the nVidia game driver, it was treating it like a game, and the refresh rate was dropping to 30Hz or less.  Microsoft office also has this issue, I have found, along with PreSonus control center.

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On 8/25/2019 at 12:47 PM, tdor said:

I was not talking about look and feel unless you misunderstood the word "design"

Sorry, didn't know the following quote from you was not referring to look and feel...

Quote

Samplitude's GUI sure should arrive in the 21st century. Until then, make it work for you.

In any case, I was just remarking on this and giving my own opinion on it...

On 8/25/2019 at 10:43 PM, Equalizer said:

If you have nVidia - do you have, by any chance, a G-Sync compatible monitor?

No, and I've already tested on Intel and AMD systems, so it's not my GPU or my GPU drivers.  It's the software.

And even if it were an issue with Nvidia, it's been known more than long enough to have received a remedy, by now.  It's insulting to even have to consider that, considering it was a "known issue" for a while, using the latest release/patch of the software.  Nvidia is a pretty solid market leader in the PC dGPU market.  Macs ship with Radeon only, these days... but almost no one is paying for Windows to Boot Camp and run Samplitude on a Mac.

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Well, to be fair.  They are not game developers, so they wouldn't have a fix built in.  Live 10 has the same issue with gaming cards on high refresh rate displays.  So does Microsoft Word/Excel (mouse will take a LOOOOONG time to move across the page while you are moused over the app in those apps!  and my trick does NOT work for them, which is pretty crazy considering it's Microsoft's own software).  But if you have a regular GPU and not nVidia/AMD, and especially not a G-Sync/FreeSync monitor, then that problem I have wouldn't apply.  It only applies with discrete GPUs attempting to control frame rate manually in the app, thinking that it might be a game, as the app will use the direct nVidia/AMD driver in many cases (including MS Word, Excel, etc.).

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I see, the GUI, — I was thinking about ergonomics, the option to scale all windows by using vector graphics. Samplitude is still using bitmaps.

 

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43 minutes ago, Equalizer said:

Well, to be fair.  They are not game developers, so they wouldn't have a fix built in.  Live 10 has the same issue with gaming cards on high refresh rate displays.  So does Microsoft Word/Excel (mouse will take a LOOOOONG time to move across the page while you are moused over the app in those apps!  and my trick does NOT work for them, which is pretty crazy considering it's Microsoft's own software).  But if you have a regular GPU and not nVidia/AMD, and especially not a G-Sync/FreeSync monitor, then that problem I have wouldn't apply.  It only applies with discrete GPUs attempting to control frame rate manually in the app, thinking that it might be a game, as the app will use the direct nVidia/AMD driver in many cases (including MS Word, Excel, etc.).

I've never experienced this in Office apps. 

But don't have a HFR display, so it was never a possibility. 

They've had more than enough time to fix these issues. Everyone else has avoided it so I'm not going to make excuses for them.

The issue is not my GPU. Music maker has the same sluggishness issue, and only when it has to draw waveforms. This was a known issue. Pro X4 supposedly had fixes for it, but they dont work. 

Not even sure why were still talking about GPUs and drivers. I have 5 PCs here. It's not an isolated incident, and is 100% reproducible - on demand. I just have to load a project and scroll up and down. Even the stock demo projects in both of those applications. 

The problem is the UI code - most likely the code to load and/or draw the waveforms. 

Of course I don't expect a fix until I have to pay for an upgrade to get it...

For the moment I'm investigating just using something else to record and then ReWiring the audio in (then editing/mixing far fewer tracks/objects), since actual projects with lots of audio and midi tracks are literally unusable due to the performance degradation (it's not the ARA bug, since I don't use Melodyne ever).

I still have some hope for a fix. 

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I am only mentioning it because if it feels like slow frame rate, it's usually the G-Sync/V-Sync/FreeSync kicking in.  You COULD have a gaming monitor that is 60 Hz (i.e., not high refresh), but STILL is FreeSync enabled, for example, which means the app might drop it to 15 or 30 frames per second refresh rate/Hz.

Obviously you know your equipment best.  I am only mentioning it because it is a common issue but one I was blissfully unaware of until starting Live 10 for the first time on my very new/expensive/top-of-the-line hardware. :)  A disappointment to say the least, but when I saw it was not just Live, and not my hardware's fault either, I accepted that it was just the way computing goes, especially in PC world.  Unforeseen combinations occur.  (such as Live 10 using the OpenGL driver - which is a good thing for performance, but yeah, opens up corner cases)

Anyway you probably don't have a variable/adaptive refresh rate monitor, but I was ONLY TRYING TO HELP just in case you did, because it took me a while to figure out, and it's not something one would expect, especially having top-of-the-line hardware.  Anyway I too hope that whatever is causing it, will be fixed.  I hope Samplitude doesn't follow the development path of Acid Pro, that's for sure.

I keep meaning to research on how to sync two computers together also to use more inputs from another interface.  Maybe there's no reliable way though for sending 32 channels over the network.

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Many monitors are FreeSync but only the more expensive monitors are G-Sync compatible. And that's off by default even if it is. 

Understand your intent. No offense taken, and apologies if it seemed that way. 

It's just a frustrating issue to deal with. 

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Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated in these days of virtual gunfights across the wide open plains of the Interwebs. :)  (especially as it's been a very long day for me personally, so, extra appreciated)

Yeah I agree, very frustrating.  And it would drive me crazy too, that's for sure.  To be honest I was very on the fence about upgrading my X3 copy, but I saw some of the history and the two original guys behind it, and thought, those are two people that I would trust in real life, and don't mind supporting.  Hopefully they are still involved and influencing the development (and bug fix) workflow.  (unrelated point, but I checked this out too before getting WaveLab on the sale they had - the original French developer is still very actively involved - if he had not been, not sure I would have gone for it)

(btw, I think G-Sync defaults to on in monitors that have it - people are paying extra for that NVidia license to use the G-Sync "chip" (which if I understand correctly is just a dongle built into every monitor with it) - so I am pretty sure manufacturers wouldn't want people think it's NOT working for some reason just because it defaults to off... hehe!)

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