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Sequoia -MIDI - CC Overdub

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Dear Community,

 

here is a result of a hardware controller overdub of a CC automation (object automation) written in real time. You can see that the old and new written values interfere, which leads to leaps of the controller in the virtual instrument plug in. Is there a way to avoid the mix of old and new values?

 

I tested the replace mode in he transport window. The problem here is that you replace all written MIDI information of the object, not only the one you write with the hardware controller.

Maybe I have to delete the old cc lane first, before I run the next recording of a cc controller, but I would like the idea to just run over with a latch mode kind of behaviour, that we know from the volume automation in a audio track.

 

THX

BX.

CC_Interference.png

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maybe there is a way to lower the resolution of incoming MIDI data. I guess there will be some setting for the editing process in Samplitude / Sequoia for smoothing out the automation points ( thin out).

So the interpolation blocks could be larger in the recording process and take bigger portions to overwrite old data. Just an idea to check for.

Until then: Deletion of old CC lanes and drawing:-)

My ultimate quest for a dedicated MAGIX orchestral writing video tutorial including those (cc-) kind of workarounds for film scoring...(please...!) This could avoid the overall spreaded idea of switching DAWs for certain aspects of the preceding creative production (audio-potential, object editor, spectral cleaning in the stock version are great, sure). My feel is that the composer site has to find some workarounds occasionally, based on the  lacking a bit of intuitivity in the DAW, isn´t it?

But I am pretty newbie to the hybrid MIDI/Audio creation site in Sequoia, I have to admit. It´s fun to explore it whatsoever

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Right, overdubbing does stand for adding data, recording midi by keeping existing notes. When this mode is used with midi controller data, it simply adds new midi curves to existing ones. We expect replacement, however. The overdubbing function cannot distinguish between keeping midi notes, but replacing midi controller values. If you use replace instead of overdub, your previously recorded notes will be replaced, too.

Two ways to handle that:

  1. Delete midi controller regions and use overdubbing with punch in and out, then smooth the edges.
  2. Separate your midi controller data from your midi notes in two different tracks that point to the same midi playback source. You then can record new midi controller data using your hardware controller on a third track, or revolver track, then cut or comp what you want and merge this back into one midi track.

Or:

You could also extract midi controller data to an automation curve. To do so go in the menu to:

Object -> Edit -> Extract Controller Curves from Midi File.

The actual midi controller becomes inactive, now you keep working with the Automation Curve. The process is one way, that is, you cannot convert the automation curve back to midi data. You also cannot use Latch to further modify your automation curve. However, working with automation curves for midi controller seems more convenient than editing the controller data in the midi editor. Try it!

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how to write cc into the lanes with a hardware controller instead of writing it to the objects, would have to check that.

At least this would be a good workaround as the lanes have their own write modes.

how to get the lane automation into object automation. the relating function in the automation menu does not work with CCs

 

...now I have two independent cc11 curves: lane and object

Good stuff, Tdor. 

 

thx

bx

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" Automation>automomationskurve bearbeiten > spur in objekt automation umwandeln "

Samplitude does this, too. This feature does not convert an automation curve back to midi controller data that you can edit in the midi editor.

 

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got that also just a minute ago with the testing here, thx, tdor! Okay, lets see.

  I wrote a new thread for that issue, I have two CC11 curves now. One in the object and the final edited version in  the lane. It makes things more difficult not to get the curve back into the object. You would have to take care a lot when moving and copying midi clips for orchestration purposes  with more independent curves in the lanes...

 

Did you try copy/paste automation curves (lets take cc curves) between different cc lanes in the object automation? Say: copy and paste from CC1  to CC11. Was not lucky on that one yet.

 

or

How to route incoming cc1 (your hardware controller) to the cc11 automation lane?

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I brought this up some time ago in another thread. If you never ever want or have to share your compositions as midi files then it won't matter. I find such data too valuable to convert into a format that another DAW cannot read.

 

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was used to that...important to take care for the ccs in orchestral writing, hmm

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would like to see that aspects in action in some videos, but did not find actual informal stuff on the composing matter. Would love to avoid the software hopping, but CCs are crucial in MIDI production.

So the automation lanes override the object automation? To avoid conflict it might be better to delete the object automation then and edit further in the more advanced lanes overdubbing behaviour.

 

A workaround with CCs from my sight could be:

  • recording midi and ccs to the object automation
  • extract to lane automation
  • overdub/edit lane automation (how to assign the hardware controller to lane automation rather than object automation?)
  • keeping an eye on the lane automation when dragging around, copy/pasting etc. the midi clip
  • talking to kraznet, adding improved CC editing to the wish list

 

THX for your patience, Tdor

 

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When you convert midi controller data to object automation, the data inside that object becomes inactive, so it won't conflict with your auto curves. In case you don't like  your automation curve edits,  you can delete all or parts of it and extract the midi data again form the object, it will merge.

There is another function in the Objects Menu: Edit -> Apply MIDI Objects and Track Effects, that will remove all midi controller data that you converted into auto curves.

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all right, THX!!

What got you into samplitude in Texas, Tdor? Guess that also some "industry standard" software is pretty common in the states?

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I found a way, real time, feels a bit like a hack, but it works: Using the VST Midi Out option at the plugin level, and the VST Midi Out - Recording at the Track Level.

Hit playback with all your midi automation curves and record at the same time via the whole MIDI LOOP back thing on a new MIDI track. It's like bouncing your wave track in real time to a new audio track, just instead of wav we use MIDI.

See:

 

Edited by tdor

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I was used to it more in classical editing or  recording audio aspects. There are more users in the mastering area, though.

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tdor!

 

Coming back to routing for the midi object curves editing ...

Try to get my head around it. Great ideas , though!! After all the art also lies in the perfect first run of CCs, of course

 

 

THX again!!

Best regards

bx

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On 8/10/2019 at 5:26 AM, tdor said:
  1. Delete midi controller regions and use overdubbing with punch in and out, then smooth the edges. 

Dear Tdor,

could you elaborate on that. Tried to delete portions of a cc curve, but was not lucky so far:

I stretched out some inner portion of a cc curve. but I can´t delete it, AFAIS...Like the punch in/out idea, sure!!

We talk about the midi editor (not the lanes), right?!

Best

BX

 

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On 8/11/2019 at 4:13 AM, tdor said:

Industry standard is AAF/OMF - most studios are DAW-agnostic 

Good point, makes the personal DAW use relative. I guess we meet at the stems in the states, too...

 

agnostic...(here means?)

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