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bobby yarrow

A Few Questions About Features Since Samp 7

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Hi. I have Samplitude 7, made a bunch of records with it, liked it a lot, but eventually was lured over to Cubase SX3. Now I've made a bunch of records in SX3, and I'm frustrated and would like to go to Samplitude 9. I've read thru a lot of the forum here, but I'd be grateful if you'd indulge me. There were some things that really made SX3 easier for me, and I want to make sure that all this stuff will be possible in Samplitude 9:

1. Comp'ing. The difficulty of comping was the main problem I had with Samplitude 7, looks like it got a nifty fix somewhere in Version 8. I really like that, in SX3, I can see every take in its own lane on every track all the time. It looks like that's only possible on 1 track at a time in Samplitude, but that's probably ok. Are folks generally happy with the new take composer operation?

2. Automation. In SX3, everything can be automated just by turning automation on, playing and doing whatever it is you want, and then turning automation off. Each automation string appears as a sort of subtrack under the track itself. In Samplitude, I did all my automation at the object level, but certain things -- particularly volume in a track with a compressor on it -- seem to benefit to from track-level automation. Is it possible to view the track-level automation in Samplitude? (It's amazing how unfamiliar the program looks to me now. It hasn't been THAT long since I was using it every day, and now I can't remember how to do anything.

3. Trackes, Aux tracks, Submix Busses. This is embarrassing, I should know this, but how exactly are submix busses handled in Samplitude?

4. Manual time adjustment of tracks & track phase. In SX3, it's very simple to manually nudge a track forward or back a specified amount -- like the 14ms it takes to go out to my compressor and back, for instance. Anything like that in Samplitude? And, is there an 'invert phase' button?

5. Turning off delay compensation. In SX3, if I have a heavy project and want to add a midi part, the delay compensation makes it such that it's impossible (the delay between when you play the keyboard and when you hear the playback is too great). So there's this little button you can hit to turn off delay compensation, which solves the problem. Is there something equivalent in Samplitude?

I have a bunch more little questions, but that's probably too much already. Thanks in advance.

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1. Comp'ing. The difficulty of comping was the main problem I had with Samplitude 7, looks like it got a nifty fix somewhere in Version 8. I really like that, in SX3, I can see every take in its own lane on every track all the time. It looks like that's only possible on 1 track at a time in Samplitude, but that's probably ok. Are folks generally happy with the new take composer operation?

Hi Bobby ,

Samp doesn't have the lanes like in SX. But in Samp you can :

1 - Select Takes : post-1463-1156721797_thumb.jpg

2 - Use the Take Manager :post-1463-1156721956_thumb.jpg

3 - Use the Take Composer for comp'ing : post-1463-1156722050_thumb.jpg

To open the Take Composer you right click on the take and choose Select Takes > Take Composer . A separate window will open where you comp your take and when you are done you click on the X at the top right . But before the TC closes you will be asked if you want to "Apply changes from the Take Composer to the origianal project" You can choose Yes/No or Cancel .

post-1463-1156722349_thumb.jpg

The comp'ed part will then be amended into the main VIP all nicely crossfaded :post-1463-1156723841_thumb.jpg

The Take Composer works pretty well although I haven't used it extensively .Basically the top track is like the master comp track and you can select a section of any of the tracks below and press Shift+C and that section is inserted into the top master take .Then repeat this procedure until you are happy with the comp. This all works in realtime whilst playing back the song in context and you can cycle the sections while working. You just need to change the solo staus of each take as you audtion and edit .If you need to make changes later you can just re-open the Take composer . There will probably be refinements in V9 as well I would imagine as it was only introduced in V8.2 if I remember correctly.

Regards

Kraznet

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Is it possible to view the track-level automation in Samplitude?

Track automation in Samp goes directly over the object .You just need to enable the Vol button (blue) and the Pan button (yellow).The you can draw in the curves manually using the Universal Mouse Mode . Double clicking inserts a node.post-1463-1156725127_thumb.jpg

If you want to automate a VST FX you can press CTRL+ALT+A to open the "Midi Controller/VST Automation curves settings " window. Then you can choose the parameters you want to automate :post-1463-1156725700_thumb.jpg

Another method is the "Automate Next Parameter " method : post-1463-1156725988_thumb.jpg

You just select this and the next knob you move on the VST will be recorded as automation . It can get a bit cluttered if there are lots of automation curves though . There has been a forum discussion recently about improving this part of Samp .

Regards

Kraznet

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Kraznet, thank you! That was a very elegant reply/demonstration. Really, that was some work, and I'm in your debt (and undoubtly in further debt to my credit card company . . . ).

I'm now crystal-clear on comping and automation, both of which look outstanding.

I wonder if "Select Takes" can be applied to all tracks selected. I bet it can, Samplitude always seemed to work that way.

As to my remaining questions -- I'm sure the track, submix, and aux system will come back to me if I start working in Samplitude again. I actually just found my Samp 7 manual, will read through that.

I'm sure that manual delay compensation must be possible, but I'd love to hear that confirmed.

And, finally, I don't if my question about turning off delay compensation makes sense in the context of Samplitude. I did very little midi in Samp 7 . . . maybe none . . . so the latency was never an issue. With SX3, there's a mode where your plugins don't get delay compensation, but you can track midi with no latency (except the latency of your soundcard). Is there some equivalent in Samplitude, or is this not an issue?

Again, many thanks for your remarkable and very helpful answers.

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Hi Bobby,

Pleased to be of assistance .

And, is there an 'invert phase' button

You can invert phase on Tracks and Objects. For tracks just right click on the Pan control and you can do everything there:post-1463-1156790143_thumb.jpg

And for Objects , open the Object Editor you just tick the boxes:post-1463-1156790326_thumb.jpg

Regards

Kraznet

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And, is there an 'invert phase' button

For tracks just right click on the Pan control and you can do everything there:post-1463-1156790143_thumb.jpg

I think in v9 there is a phase button on the mixer and track editor.

BGK

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I think in v9 there is a phase button on the mixer and track editor.

Cool I didn't know that :)

3. Trackes, Aux tracks, Submix Busses. This is embarrassing, I should know this, but how exactly are submix busses handled in Samplitude?

All this can be defined in the Project Options press keyboard shortcut and select Mixer/Track Setup :post-1463-1156792135_thumb.jpg

Then you can route your tracks to the required Bus :post-1463-1156792503_thumb.jpg

Of course you can route to Mixer Aux FX Busses from individual objects as well :post-1463-1156792774_thumb.jpg

Also V9 will will have Aux sends for individual tracks in the new Track Editor .

Regards

Kraznet

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5. Turning off delay compensation. In SX3, if I have a heavy project and want to add a midi part, the delay compensation makes it such that it's impossible (the delay between when you play the keyboard and when you hear the playback is too great). So there's this little button you can hit to turn off delay compensation, which solves the problem. Is there something equivalent in Samplitude?

I haven't noticed this being a problem in Samp Bobby but you can turn off automatic delay compensation in that same Mixer/Track Setup window .

In SX3, it's very simple to manually nudge a track forward or back a specified amount -- like the 14ms it takes to go out to my compressor and back, for instance. Anything like that in Samplitude?

I think I know what you mean by this . I used to do it when I used Logic to compensate for the delay with my external GigaStudio rig . So far I haven't found a similar thing in Samp . But there is a Force Latency setting for individual Plug Ins available in the Track Plug in window (click on PL box ) although I have never used it. I believe the new V9 Hybrid Audio engine may improve on things if your inserting external gear .

Regards

Kraznet

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Nice, thank you.

I reckon I could put in a zero-latency plugin and force the latency to 14ms, which usually about what it takes on my system to get out to a piece of hardware and back. At the same time, it's rarely much of an issue. A 14ms delay is only an issue at all if you're mixing wet and dry -- if you're using a compressor on a vocal and the vocal is 14ms late, it's really meaningless.

Thanks again for your great help. Excited to get back to working in Samplitude. I'm waiting to upgrade directly from 7 to 9, so I guess it'll be a couple weeks anticipation . . .

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4. Manual time adjustment of tracks & track phase. In SX3, it's very simple to manually nudge a track forward or back a specified amount -- like the 14ms it takes to go out to my compressor and back, for instance. Anything like that in Samplitude?

Select the object(s) you want to move and then go to the Object menu --> Move / Edit Objects. Here you should see two more menus called Object Move Step 1 and Object Move Step 2. These are two different step values and you can set the values for these using the Object/Fade Step Settings... located above the Step menus.

So for example you can set step 1 to move the object by 1ms and set step 2 to move the object by 10ms. Or if you will only ever need to move it by 14ms, then set one of these steps to 14ms.

Now to actually move the objects, got into the Object Move Step 1 (or 2) menu and select Move Object(s) Left or Move Object(s) Right (depending on which way you need to move the track).

You can also set these controls to a shortcut key that you can remember easily. For example use ctrl or shift plus the left/right arrow keys to move the object... Then the "O" key to open the object/fade step settings box.

For another option go to the Object menu --> Move / Edit Objects --> Move Objects. This will bring up a box where you can manually type in the new starting time for the object. It would be nice if this had the option to "move by" a certain value in addition to "move to" a certain value. So you wouldn't have to do math if your object starts at a different time other than zero. :)

-tkr

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5. Turning off delay compensation. In SX3, if I have a heavy project and want to add a midi part, the delay compensation makes it such that it's impossible (the delay between when you play the keyboard and when you hear the playback is too great).

With the Software Monitoring (Track (FX) Monitoring) you bypass the VSTi from the mixer so it doesn't suffer from latency fx. This is already possible since V7.

With the V9 hybrid engine you can setup your monitoring/latency/cpu load quite balanced to fit your needs.

V9 offers a mode "Mixer Monitoring", this is the mode SX always does.

For recording VSTi with low latency, you can switch back to Track Monitoring (with or without track FX), and then you can even still hear the other tracks with all their track and mixer fx (even with 300 ms latency fx, because they are preloaded).

Greetings,

Frank

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About the take manager... I too use SX3 and the take lanes in SX are a godsend for editing live drums where you have about 10 or so tracks.

Can the take manager comp a multi take drum comp over say, 10 tracks? This is a do or die feature for me because the lane feature in SX makes this a breeze - it was that and the time warp that I went to SX for. Sonar has the same feature but you can't group the audio clips :)

Samp 9 is looking killer!! Can't wait for the demo ;)

Cheers, R

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About the take manager... I too use SX3 and the take lanes in SX are a godsend for editing live drums where you have about 10 or so tracks.

Can the take manager comp a multi take drum comp over say, 10 tracks?

Thanks Tekker and Frank for the information. I never noticed midi tracking latency until moving to SX3, and I guess you've explained why. It's also nice to know that manually adjusting the start time is possible. With a bounce thru hardware, manual adjustment is all I need. And he 'move' feature will be useful in the way that 'nudge' is useful in SX3 I guess; when a snare hit's a bit late, make it its own object, set the step amount to 1/64 and move the hit step by step til it sound right?

As to multi-track comping, I'm assuming that Samplitude will let you select, for instance, 12 drum tracks, work on the take composer in 1 track, and then "apply to all selected." One of my fonder memories of Samplitude was that you could usually "apply to all selected" with just about anything. Is that right, as far as comping multiple tracks at once?

Thanks again, everyone, for the help. It might be silly, but one of the things that makes Samplitude particularly a pleasure to use is THIS FORUM. C.F., cubase.net . . . .

(Sidebar: I'm a rotten typist. English is my native language, believe it or not . . . )

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I'm sure I'll be able to figure out a workflow for dealing with a dozen drum tracks. It may be thru the take manager, which wasn't really working that well in Samplitude 7. In SX3, I use folder tracks -- snips in the folder snip all tracks in the folder, and then I manually select each take for each track. Not exactly brilliant. I'm sure Samplitude has something at least as efficient for dealing with comping multiple tracks at once.

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Oh, 1 more little question:

Is it possible to set the pan position of an aux send differently from the pan position of the track? This is a smallish point, but something I do a lot with delays.

Thanks.

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It seems like it could be difficult comping several takes of multitracked drums in Samp if the take composer is single track only...In SX I can group each take of multitracked drums (in lanes) and I only need to have the Kick and Snare tracks on screen as the other tracks that are grouped all move as each take is edited. After the comp is done I can ungroup and tidy up the crossfades.

As the majority of my work involves live drums I need the capacity to edit multitracked drums over several takes - it looks like the Take Composer needs to do multiple tracks instead of a single track to do this effectively.

Any feedback on how other users do this sort of operation would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

R

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Thanks Sebastian, I'll look forward to giving the demo a go to see how this aspect of Samp 9 works - it looks like an awesome update, I might be able to leave SX ehind and switch back (used to have Samp 7).

Cheers,

R

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In SX I can group each take of multitracked drums (in lanes) and I only need to have the Kick and Snare tracks on screen as the other tracks that are grouped all move as each take is edited

Are you talking about Ripple Editing?

Regards

Kraznet

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It seems like it could be difficult comping several takes of multitracked drums in Samp if the take composer is single track only...In SX I can group each take of multitracked drums (in lanes) and I only need to have the Kick and Snare tracks on screen as the other tracks that are grouped all move as each take is edited. After the comp is done I can ungroup and tidy up the crossfades.

Drums are my main instrument, so I do multitrack drums as well (7 to 8 channels) and you can do exactly what you are describing by using track folders. :wacko:

1) Load all of the drum takes into your VIP.

2) Put the drum tracks into the track folders by grouping all of the drum tracks from take into the same track folder. In other words, all the drum tracks from take 1 will go into one track folder, all the drum tracks from take 2 will go into a different track folder, etc...

3) On the top track for each track folder (these should be called F:1, F:2, etc.) right-click on the track name (F:1) and choose whichever track you want to be visible. This will give you an object that you can edit instead of showing all of the tracks that are in the track folder.

4) Select all of the tracks inside of the track folder and go to the Object menu --> Group objects. Do this for each of the track folders.

5) Close all of the track folders.

6) Up above these track folders, you should have an empty set of tracks where you are going to combine all of your drum tracks. So create the same amount of empty tracks as you have drum tracks.

7) Now above the empty tracks, create another track folder and put all of these empty tracks inside of it and close the track folder.

That's it. Now you can freely copy clips into the first empty track folder and all of your drum tracks will follow the single visible track. You can then expand the track folder and see all of your drum tracks but while you are editing you will only see one track. Ungrouping the tracks in the track folder will let you tweak individual cross fades.

Hope that helps. ;)

-tkr

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It does help. That might be exactly how I do it . . . looks long when you read it, but I think it'll be simple to actually do. Thanks.

Yeah, it takes longer to try to explain it in words than it does to actually do it. :wacko:

-tkr

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